Call me old school but I agree with Beetlehog. Ultimately there’s no such thing as “the FO took me to the crash site”. If an error in judgement or decision making has led to an incident or regrettably; an accident, it comes down to who makes the big bucks.

If you look back at AF447, the captain left for inflight rest while the aircraft approached significant weather. Hindsight is a great thing, but it’s also a hole created in the Swiss cheese. We have increasingly evolved into a “threat base” style of operating, which has lead to a massive reduction in safety related incidents industry wide.

While we wait for the final report of the Atlas 767 crash, do you think human factors wont play a huge role in the investigation? Am I out of line to suggest that (with many previous crashes caused by somatogravic illusion) the Captain should have voiced polite concern to his FO that avoiding weather while manually flying may not have been the best decision?

 

Again, how about waiting just a little while before assigning blame. There are just tons of variables. What were the reported winds and runway conditions? Rubber deposits? Aircraft malfunction?

It very well could be a case of pilot error, but most of us wait until we get more information. In the end, there is no damage to the aircraft, so it’s really not that big of a deal. Maybe if we’re patient, we can all learn something that can make us safer pilots.

 

I completely agree. I’m not laying the blame on any individual, I was only agreeing with the general notion of a previous post that states; the Captain is ultimately responsible.

 

Without a doubt...

 

That airplane looks like it doesn't have any brakes. They are in full reverse and only going around 60 knots for the last 2,000 ft of runway. He eats up the last 2,000 ft and hardly slows down. The water getting sucked into the engine and out the reversers is just that not compressor stalls. I've never seen a MD11 or DC-10 compressor stall in reverse? The guy looks like he turns off going around 30 knots still in full reverse. He looks like he just got it as slow as he could with the reversers then went off the side to stop the airplane in the grass.

Anyone know what really happened?

 

If you look at the left engine you will see bright flashes the cover the inlet indicating a compressor stall DID happen.

How often do you see an MD-11 using full reverse thrust at a low ground speed? Full reverse thrust at a low ground speed will disturb the air in front of the engine which could easily cause a compressor stall.

 

They didn't go into the grass. There's a relatively small overrun at the end of rwy 14 that they entered by about 10 meters. Probably stopped with the nose gear far enough past the entry to taxiways E1 or W1 that they decided to get towed. Definitely compressor stalled - easy to see in the video. As 2stg said, a common event when reverse is used to a very slow ground speed.

 

Ok that’s true but what if.all available information at the time indicated that a safe landing could be made and it’s found out the information was not complete or erroneous?

 

Gentlemen,

Let's not lose sight of how serious this could have been. Just because there was no damage to the aircraft doesn't diminish the potential severity of this incident. As many of you know, this particular airport is surrounded on all sides by little "shanty" houses.

I would like to write a little about landing performance if I may. For the crowd that says "if the computer says it is legal than it is safe"; look at the totality of the situation and start CRM'ing these events a little better. The gentleman or lady sitting next to you might have some very valuable information you might not have thought of or have experienced before. Computers are very nice to have to compute T.O.L. performance but it is still up to us to think critically about other variables. A wise Captain once told me "son, if you don't make that touchdown zone, all those numbers you just pulled out of your backside don't mean a darn thing!" He used more colorful language but the point still is lodged in my brain and hopefully I will never forget it.

I haven't been to this particular airport in some years but from my recollection the build up of rubber at the ends was pretty significant. From the video some of you have written that their braking looked "nill-ish" and it might have been due to their location and I am guessing they were probably landing around 491,500 lbs. This is an awful lot of inertia to stop. Be careful out there guys and gals. Cheers

 

I forgot to mention one other thing that might be useful for everyone. I have never had to do this kind of technique thankfully but another wise Captain told me that if you think you might be going off the end of the runway get off the centerline and put your brake wheels on some "clean" pavement if you can. What are your thoughts on this technique? I always thought that for us average airmen this is probably asking too much but it definitely has its merit and should be mentioned. Off my soapbox. Sorry.