I agree. At least they are honest and say their model can’t be relied upon for retirement planning estimates.

The entire point of the defined benefit is that you know, with certainty, what you are going to receive. Yes inflation will chip away at that values true purchasing power. However, if you have a mortgage when you retire you can refinance at a fixed rate and that payment will be locked in too...you’ll have fixed income covering a fixed payment. Your 401k can be used to travel, buy cars, medical bills, showering grandkids with stuff, etc. You’ll also have social security.

I haven’t flown with anyone yet who is a fan of the unions plan. Sure it’s anecdotal, but I think it demonstrates there is little to no support out there for the plan the union pitched to the company.

I’d love to see the A plan increase, not sure the company is willing to do that. I think a more realistic goal is to increase the company’s contribution up from 9%.

 

A hard sell is an understatement, more like unsubstantiated propaganda.

1 - Not one company that utilizes a stabilized/variable plan that cannot reduce retiree benefits based on the fund's investment returns has been identified in order to help us review their plan literature and protections. Major League baseball is a lie, although front and center in most people's minds as an example still. The lack of evidence and dismissal of the request for examples only drives a wider chasm between you and those of us who are wary of the risk. Is it fair to say we will be the first one of these plans in history? If so, why don't you understand the risk assessment we'd like to make? Keep mocking our caution and you will see more divergence.

2 - The company indeed wants out of the pension business! Right now they cannot wiggle out our current plan, but set up a new plan concept that no company in our nation's history has used and they will figure out a way. Provide some literature from other companies that use a stabilized fund that can never reduce pension payouts and you will go a long way in removing that concern. Otherwise, you are just squawking "don't you want more money" all day long and providing nothing towards our vetting of this miracle plan.

3 - See the attached picture - obviously MLB is a straight lie, but which one of these other "high wage earners" do we want to emulate? They make literally hundreds of dollars PER MONTH on their variable plans and their benefits are not guaranteed. Sign me up!

4 - Please, again, please explain how the stabilized plan is required to be 100% funded per ERISA/PBGC/PPA 2006 requirements like our current plan, yet somehow that amount is not as restrictive as we have now and allows us to receive more of the cashflow from the underlying investments! It is nowhere in any of the propaganda I read, so maybe someone heard something at a hub turn meeting that can answer why there are different laws governing each of the plans.

5 - Do the notional shares invest in mostly stocks in order to improve the returns required for increased retiree payouts? That is a fair question and duh is not an answer! If this fund is equity-heavy and we have to burn through the stabilization fund in the first 5 years, then what? THE COMPANY CAN GET OUT THIS THING IN A HEARTBEAT. But yes, thank you for the "duh" response it helps me understand the risk quite a bit.

If you just respond by mockery to those who want evidence and examples, the results of these "discussions" will be more caution by those of us who act based on risk and a knowledge of our company's intentions and historical behavior. You are your own worst enemies. Dr K.

 

IPA has improved their plan. But it still isn’t at the level of FedEx. The $4400 doesn’t take effect for another 16 months, requires 30 years of service, and is only for captains.

 

What percentage of FDX retirees never held a CA seat?

 

Kronan and his ALPA buddies got PBS on the property. I wonder what they were paid in return.

Now they're hard selling to get rid of our A-plan. And I've heard from several Captains who said they were "connected" that during this next contract we will lose our A-plan and more PBS.

Crazy.

 

UPS’s pension bump only applies to those who retire under the duration of that agreement. It’s no different than the bump we did for those on the way out the door in 2006.

What great timing!!! The podcast that came out today stifles many of these garbage made up fallacy comments that many are spewing.

I don’t see the union selling us anything in the retirement education series. They talked about many different plans and the pros and cons to all of them.

 

The fact that you can’t see it, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. The stress they put on certain things, the lack of stress on others...it’s there if you want to see it.
I was told by a committee member over a year ago that the NC had already gave them their top three priorities and number 1 was the new VB plan. Straight faced, no concern over finding out from the membership what they did or didn’t want, that was the top priority, period.

Before you get high and mighty about everything, yes, I’ve attended meetings, yes, I’ve listened to the podcasts, yes, I’ve watched the videos, yes, I’ve taken the “proposal” to 3 different financial advisors, all of whom have said essentially and one specifically, “no one would be crazy enough to trade your DB plan for that plan!”, no, I’m not maxed and never will my A Plan, and yes, I think it would be among the worst things we could vote in.


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Were they less than 10 years seniority at retirement?

 

What he said. Same experience. My financial advisor did a double take when I explained our A-fund. That financial advisor, Fidelity Wealth Management.

 

Wow, same experience as poster above. Interesting. Asking a financial advisor who doesn't specialize in pensions questions about pensions? I think people who specialize in that area are called ERISA attorney’s and pension specialist. Well guess what my financial advisor says? He says “im not an expert in that area so I will defer on that subject”. I think thats why I trust and respect him. He knows that DC plans and DB plans are two completely different animals.

You know what I find funny is we have many who specialize in the DB field who have worked on this for us to include an ERISA attorney and numerous outside consultants. I think I will listen to what they have to say on this subject.

Lets say someone comes oboard an MD-11 and states “im a pilot”. Does that make him capable of flying that airplane? What he forgot to tell you was he is only a private pilot. So as you can see a “financial advisor” is not an all encompassing term.

Now as I have stated numerous times, im not stuck on only looking at the new A plan. Im open to many different “fixes”. Im open to retirement gains PERIOD.......