A Simple Reminder
06-10-2023 | 04:35 AM
#51
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 864
Likes: 50
From: B767
Emmerson Biggs. Spot on.
Finally a sane post. I said it before, we had leverage the last two years when we had record loads but guys had to keep flying overtime. The inherent greed was amazing. And, here we are now with guys complaining that the contract may not meet their expectations. We should have given our union and the NC the tools and leverage as soon as the last contract expired. But, we had guys who put themselves first and banked the bucks. Its disappointing to see so many contracts where we could have gotten more but not enough pilots cared about the group, just themselves.
Lets see what the TA has to offer and then make an informed decision. My guess, MEC approval and it gets voted in by the pilots.
And scope is a mute point as several have pointed out.
Finally a sane post. I said it before, we had leverage the last two years when we had record loads but guys had to keep flying overtime. The inherent greed was amazing. And, here we are now with guys complaining that the contract may not meet their expectations. We should have given our union and the NC the tools and leverage as soon as the last contract expired. But, we had guys who put themselves first and banked the bucks. Its disappointing to see so many contracts where we could have gotten more but not enough pilots cared about the group, just themselves.
Lets see what the TA has to offer and then make an informed decision. My guess, MEC approval and it gets voted in by the pilots.
And scope is a mute point as several have pointed out.
06-10-2023 | 07:33 AM
#52
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 155
Likes: 7
From: 777
Stan,
honest question….why can Delta fly maximum green slips and get an industry leading contract but we should not?
Is there something special of cargo guys not flying draft and pressure it provides compared to pax guys?
I was not here for the CoVID windfall but just trying to understand the logic here
honest question….why can Delta fly maximum green slips and get an industry leading contract but we should not?
Is there something special of cargo guys not flying draft and pressure it provides compared to pax guys?
I was not here for the CoVID windfall but just trying to understand the logic here
I don't think it's realistic to compare how each pilot group arrives at the results. We use the results in pattern bargaining, not the method. There are too many variables in each pilot group, their negotiation history, culture, priorities on both sides of the table, etc. Maybe Delta management was more wary of potentially energizing their pilots into unwanted actions and ignored the selfish actions of some. Delta has been militant in the past and maybe it wasn't worth it to their management to risk it. Or maybe it was as simple as their management placing value on signing a CBA that will attract talent in the current hiring cycle with a finite number of qualified candidates available.
Contrast that with our situation. Our VP of flight ops basically told our side that an industry leading contract isn't necessary. According to him, a pilot position at FedEx is so coveted, we'll never have any problems hiring the best talent. He's still living in the lost decade where FedEx became the golden child by default and for some reason still thinks that's where we stand. That's the attitude our negotiators faced on the other side of the table - hardly the same situation facing DL pilot negotiators. So, in my opinion, what DL pilots did while they were negotiating has nothing to do with us and our individual choices.
06-10-2023 | 08:54 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Not Stan, but my take?
I don't think it's realistic to compare how each pilot group arrives at the results. We use the results in pattern bargaining, not the method. There are too many variables in each pilot group, their negotiation history, culture, priorities on both sides of the table, etc. Maybe Delta management was more wary of potentially energizing their pilots into unwanted actions and ignored the selfish actions of some. Delta has been militant in the past and maybe it wasn't worth it to their management to risk it. Or maybe it was as simple as their management placing value on signing a CBA that will attract talent in the current hiring cycle with a finite number of qualified candidates available.
Contrast that with our situation. Our VP of flight ops basically told our side that an industry leading contract isn't necessary. According to him, a pilot position at FedEx is so coveted, we'll never have any problems hiring the best talent. He's still living in the lost decade where FedEx became the golden child by default and for some reason still thinks that's where we stand. That's the attitude our negotiators faced on the other side of the table - hardly the same situation facing DL pilot negotiators. So, in my opinion, what DL pilots did while they were negotiating has nothing to do with us and our individual choices.
I don't think it's realistic to compare how each pilot group arrives at the results. We use the results in pattern bargaining, not the method. There are too many variables in each pilot group, their negotiation history, culture, priorities on both sides of the table, etc. Maybe Delta management was more wary of potentially energizing their pilots into unwanted actions and ignored the selfish actions of some. Delta has been militant in the past and maybe it wasn't worth it to their management to risk it. Or maybe it was as simple as their management placing value on signing a CBA that will attract talent in the current hiring cycle with a finite number of qualified candidates available.
Contrast that with our situation. Our VP of flight ops basically told our side that an industry leading contract isn't necessary. According to him, a pilot position at FedEx is so coveted, we'll never have any problems hiring the best talent. He's still living in the lost decade where FedEx became the golden child by default and for some reason still thinks that's where we stand. That's the attitude our negotiators faced on the other side of the table - hardly the same situation facing DL pilot negotiators. So, in my opinion, what DL pilots did while they were negotiating has nothing to do with us and our individual choices.
06-10-2023 | 10:23 AM
#54
Aspiring PSA Captain
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 200
06-10-2023 | 10:33 AM
#55
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Emmerson Biggs. Spot on.
Finally a sane post. I said it before, we had leverage the last two years when we had record loads but guys had to keep flying overtime. The inherent greed was amazing. And, here we are now with guys complaining that the contract may not meet their expectations. We should have given our union and the NC the tools and leverage as soon as the last contract expired. But, we had guys who put themselves first and banked the bucks. Its disappointing to see so many contracts where we could have gotten more but not enough pilots cared about the group, just themselves.
Lets see what the TA has to offer and then make an informed decision. My guess, MEC approval and it gets voted in by the pilots.
And scope is a mute point as several have pointed out.
Finally a sane post. I said it before, we had leverage the last two years when we had record loads but guys had to keep flying overtime. The inherent greed was amazing. And, here we are now with guys complaining that the contract may not meet their expectations. We should have given our union and the NC the tools and leverage as soon as the last contract expired. But, we had guys who put themselves first and banked the bucks. Its disappointing to see so many contracts where we could have gotten more but not enough pilots cared about the group, just themselves.
Lets see what the TA has to offer and then make an informed decision. My guess, MEC approval and it gets voted in by the pilots.
And scope is a mute point as several have pointed out.
06-10-2023 | 12:29 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 0
From: Gear Monkey
I assume your sources painted a full picture for you. Please share “what you’re hearing”
Thanks
In Unity (for Everyone),
DLax
06-11-2023 | 01:55 AM
#60
On Reserve
Joined: Dec 2021
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
You have completely flipped your position. Looking back through your post you were one of the biggest bellyachers who complained that we didn’t have a contract 12-18 months ago. It’s very obvious by you defending the “subcontractor“ mentality, that you most likely partook your self. very interesting to see the usernames defending that type of behavior. It’s obvious who those were that partook. As a famous comedian, once said “here’s your sign“.
In regards to flying extra, I have a deal for you. I'll be you $50K I've credited less hours than you have in the last 2 years. Interested?
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