In a word… embarrassing!
I'm going to have to remember that in future arguments with people.
06-14-2023 | 05:35 AM
#32
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Generally speaking, you should prioritize your work rules and QOL before your fealty to Mammon. There shouldn't even be any vacillation over the decision to be made on this TA. You're pontificating on potentially passing these horrendous concessions and rules in here so that "[you] could be halfway to another TA". Now, you're going to be bargaining to have these newly passed rules changed. You're now going be asking for something at the next negotiating table. Essentially, you're ceding ground that you won't ever recover, or the recovery of which will be very difficult. This is a zero sum game for the most part. I can't believe this is even a thought running through people's minds. At least if we passed this TA, we might look forward to a nice little wet lease penalty payment while we sit furloughed from a parted out operation due to lack of any real strong scope. That's pretty neat.
Again, not implying anyone should agree to this TA and not saying I am. You know as good as I do that junior guys appear to be on the cutting board. Bigger fish to fry. We gained less than every other pilot on the list, if you even want to call it "gains." I'm just trying to see the 2nd, 3rd, 4th order effects that occur when we have to start over. It all plays into one of the biggest decisions of our lives. Stay or go.
06-14-2023 | 05:45 AM
#33
China Visa Applicant
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,964
Likes: 16
From: Midfield downwind
The idea that this had to be *negotiated* is simply asinine.
06-14-2023 | 07:24 AM
#34
On Reserve
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 148
Likes: 11
From: Retired
This in no way suggests any support for this TA, just trying to limit the misinformation to the upcoming road shows. Plenty of other reasons to be disappointed in this TA.
06-14-2023 | 11:36 AM
#35
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 30
Likes: 4
This colleague of yours gets it!
Yes our top hourly pay rate in 2027 of $434/hr is
more than their top in 2025 (when their contract
becomes amendable) of $401. HOWEVER:
They get 13 bid periods of 28 days, at a min
guarantee of 75/hrs each bid period: thus
$401x75x13= $390,975
We have 8 bid periods of 4 weeks with 68 hrs
guarantee, and 4 bid periods of 5 weeks with 85 hrs
quarantee. Thus:
($435x68x8) + ($435x85x4) = $384,540
So total yearly guaranteed compensation for us in
2027 is $6,435 LESS than UPS guaranteed
compensation in 2025. If we us our 2025 rate, it's
even worse ($410/hr, which works out to $28,535
LESS than UPS current contract rates in 2025!
Yes our top hourly pay rate in 2027 of $434/hr is
more than their top in 2025 (when their contract
becomes amendable) of $401. HOWEVER:
They get 13 bid periods of 28 days, at a min
guarantee of 75/hrs each bid period: thus
$401x75x13= $390,975
We have 8 bid periods of 4 weeks with 68 hrs
guarantee, and 4 bid periods of 5 weeks with 85 hrs
quarantee. Thus:
($435x68x8) + ($435x85x4) = $384,540
So total yearly guaranteed compensation for us in
2027 is $6,435 LESS than UPS guaranteed
compensation in 2025. If we us our 2025 rate, it's
even worse ($410/hr, which works out to $28,535
LESS than UPS current contract rates in 2025!
06-14-2023 | 06:03 PM
#36
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
From: Embraer and Boeing Repair Technician
That's a good point. Even with increased negotiating power outside of retirement, you're still blowing through it to reverse previous concessions. That puts you back at square one anyway. Where we should be today, but will now have to fight to get two years from today.
Again, not implying anyone should agree to this TA and not saying I am. You know as good as I do that junior guys appear to be on the cutting board. Bigger fish to fry. We gained less than every other pilot on the list, if you even want to call it "gains." I'm just trying to see the 2nd, 3rd, 4th order effects that occur when we have to start over. It all plays into one of the biggest decisions of our lives. Stay or go.
Again, not implying anyone should agree to this TA and not saying I am. You know as good as I do that junior guys appear to be on the cutting board. Bigger fish to fry. We gained less than every other pilot on the list, if you even want to call it "gains." I'm just trying to see the 2nd, 3rd, 4th order effects that occur when we have to start over. It all plays into one of the biggest decisions of our lives. Stay or go.
I understand your overall probative intent here. I, too, wish I could understand the complete trajectory and ensuing fallout of this entire ordeal, for better or worse. I can completely comprehend the angst for the future, but alas, either decision you make will impact you negatively here. This industry is rife with uncertainty and just about the only certainty is its cyclical nature. I believe that we are headed for more tumultuous times both here at FDX and economically across the nation, but what I would not want to do is let that emotion (fear) obfuscate my reasoning or prevent me from superlative achievement. Staying or leaving, in my mind, is immaterial to the outcome of my vote and would not preclude me from desiring to achieve more here for our own brethren industry wide and for posterity here at FDX. This TA, after all, will haunt you elsewhere if passed in its current state. The entire reason you're seeing guys ask for Delta rates is because they exist in the first place, that is to say they are NOT fictional. Those rates, amongst others, are definite and exist on paper to present to our own company at the table. I think we have an obligation to ask for and "hold" these same rates at a minimum. Our bonds are of our own making in this process. The rates aren't my only complaint, honestly. There are so many perplexing QOL and work rule changes. Passing a non-industry leading or competitive contract is a net dissolving, or weakening, agent across the industry. This is the whole point of being a collective. I say all of this knowing full well that I might even be on the chopping block in some eventuality and so be it. Chop away, I say, but do so under a contract that is commensurate with other industry leading contracts. It's really quite simple for me: I will not capitulate and I will not be led astray by any kind of FUD or FOMO. I want to look at everyone else's contract and feel better about our own. I don't want to harbor any regret or envy.
06-14-2023 | 10:33 PM
#38
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 917
Likes: 2
I’m TOTALLY happy moving forward with our current CBA…I can bid R24 and safety commute, I can bid LCA lines and get paid 100% to stay home, I can conflict carryover and take the rest of the month off if I want, I can keep tabs on my non contract hotel receipts and submit them no problem, I can comfortably retire under our current A plan, I can go do currency landing sims and prove why, I can live without the pathetic signing “bonus” and most importantly, I can wait 6 months for my wet lease check AND sleep at night KNOWING that NONE of my fellow FedEx brethren are in furlough status (blood money) …so there…….back to negations NC… thanks, but I’m good.
06-15-2023 | 03:39 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,097
Likes: 0
I’m TOTALLY happy moving forward with our current CBA…I can bid R24 and safety commute, I can bid LCA lines and get paid 100% to stay home, I can conflict carryover and take the rest of the month off if I want, I can keep tabs on my non contract hotel receipts and submit them no problem, I can comfortably retire under our current A plan, I can go do currency landing sims and prove why, I can live without the pathetic signing “bonus” and most importantly, I can wait 6 months for my wet lease check AND sleep at night KNOWING that NONE of my fellow FedEx brethren are in furlough status (blood money) …so there…….back to negations NC… thanks, but I’m good.
06-15-2023 | 06:33 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 0
From: Gear Monkey
I’m TOTALLY happy moving forward with our current CBA…I can bid R24 and safety commute, I can bid LCA lines and get paid 100% to stay home, I can conflict carryover and take the rest of the month off if I want, I can keep tabs on my non contract hotel receipts and submit them no problem, I can comfortably retire under our current A plan, I can go do currency landing sims and prove why, I can live without the pathetic signing “bonus” and most importantly, I can wait 6 months for my wet lease check AND sleep at night KNOWING that NONE of my fellow FedEx brethren are in furlough status (blood money) …so there…….back to negations NC… thanks, but I’m good.
It was (is) the NC & MEC's responsibility to submit, endorse and forward a ratifiable agreement. They were (are) holding a 99% strike vote card in their hands, which they asked for. Any delay in getting a ratifiable TA does not rest at the feet of the membership, who will not accept a substandard agreement full of scheduling concessions.
In Unity (for Everyone)
DLax
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