Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Cargo > FedEx
In a word… embarrassing! >

In a word? embarrassing!

Search

Notices

In a word… embarrassing!

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 06-15-2023 | 07:15 AM
  #41  
gasnhaul's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 568
Likes: 0
From: Stuck in Purple Limbo
Default

Originally Posted by magic rat
I’m TOTALLY happy moving forward with our current CBA…I can bid R24 and safety commute, I can bid LCA lines and get paid 100% to stay home, I can conflict carryover and take the rest of the month off if I want, I can keep tabs on my non contract hotel receipts and submit them no problem, I can comfortably retire under our current A plan, I can go do currency landing sims and prove why, I can live without the pathetic signing “bonus” and most importantly, I can wait 6 months for my wet lease check AND sleep at night KNOWING that NONE of my fellow FedEx brethren are in furlough status (blood money) …so there…….back to negations NC… thanks, but I’m good.
Get this individual a 🍺 on me!
Reply
Old 06-15-2023 | 09:59 AM
  #42  
magic rat's Avatar
Line Holder
 
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 917
Likes: 2
Default

From another source:So, Section 1 - Scope…..



Let me spell this out. And again, someone please correct me if I am completely wrong, maybe I don’t understand the verbiage, and I will happily say I am wrong if can be proven otherwise, but I am pretty certain THIS TA REMOVES THE ONLY WET LEASE LIMITATION WE HAVE IN OUR CURRENT CONTRACT!



They have red-lined all parts that included “Except for the minimum two aircraft wet leasing referred to above, during the bid periods described in this paragraph, the Company shall not wet lease more than the net gain of trunk aircraft scheduled to be added and brought into service in any calendar year.”



So, currently the company can always wet-lease two aircraft, for up to four bid periods per calendar year, without penalty. Above that they ARE LIMITED BASED ON THE NET GAIN OF TRUNK AIRCRAFT BROUGHT INTO SERVICE. So, if they cancel all future orders today, they cannot just wet-lease more than two while they park/retire current trunk airplanes and don’t bring more online. THIS IS HUGE as it protects what we have defined as Domestic and International flying.



I had to listen to the FDX ALPA Podcast multiple times as I felt I had to be hearing them incorrectly, but two different committe members said at least 2x (at minute 11:30 and minute 13) that the Comapny can wet-lease as much as they want right now. THIS IS INCORRECT INFORMATION based on the language of the contract. They can do as much as they want for outside of the “domestic and international” definitions (ie. within Europe)



They removed the limitation in the TA, and the penalty system even pays LOWER if they are REDUCING TOTAL FLEET SIZE! It is spelled out in their stated example! At minute 10 of the podcast, they state the exact opposite of what is actually written in the new blue language. These are the people telling us to vote for this.



However, if this TA is signed, what is to stop the following scenario:

-The company stops hiring indefinitely…as in never again.

-The company cancels all future orders as soon as the pilot group signs this TA.

-The company continues to retire airframes with the MD11s as currently planned, then the Airbus, then the 757 and eventually park or sell the 777 and 767 fleets. It will take several years for sure, but could easily happen with 10-15 years, perhaps much, much sooner.

-They just let the attrition of pilots leaving through retirement and ill-will slowly whittle down the crew force as they need and only keep as many aircraft in the trunk fleet as the current shrinking seniority list can staff. THEY NEVER EVEN HAVE TO FURLOUGH!

-Throughout this whole process above, they just continue to increase the wet-leasing to the lowest bidder as it is “economically necessary” under section 1.b.4.

-There will be penalty payments, but someone could use a spreadsheet to plan them all out…we basically just gave them a planned map as to how to get rid of the trunk operated aircraft and exactly how much it will cost them to do so.



And just like that, the entire FDX master seniority list is completely eroded over a block of time and FedEx moves along its merry way as all its air-freight movement is all done by contract flying….so any potential gain anywhere in the contract is eventually worthless.



ASL has confirmed orders for lots of 767s….they really don’t need those in Europe….what’s to stop them from setting up “ASL America”?



The Company has already stated publicly they want to use more non-purple tails, and it can be read on page 13 of the FedEx Investors Meeting Transcript – June 29, 2022. Link to full transcript:



https://s21.q4cdn.com/665674268/file...3-Q231rOn8YMR4 (https://s21.q4cdn.com/665674268/file...3-Q231rOn8YMR4)
Reply
Old 06-15-2023 | 10:15 AM
  #43  
FrankTheTank's Avatar
Fill'er Up Again
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 1
From: Scarebus Captain
Default

Originally Posted by magic rat
From another source:So, Section 1 - Scope…..



Let me spell this out. And again, someone please correct me if I am completely wrong, maybe I don’t understand the verbiage, and I will happily say I am wrong if can be proven otherwise, but I am pretty certain THIS TA REMOVES THE ONLY WET LEASE LIMITATION WE HAVE IN OUR CURRENT CONTRACT!



They have red-lined all parts that included “Except for the minimum two aircraft wet leasing referred to above, during the bid periods described in this paragraph, the Company shall not wet lease more than the net gain of trunk aircraft scheduled to be added and brought into service in any calendar year.”



So, currently the company can always wet-lease two aircraft, for up to four bid periods per calendar year, without penalty. Above that they ARE LIMITED BASED ON THE NET GAIN OF TRUNK AIRCRAFT BROUGHT INTO SERVICE. So, if they cancel all future orders today, they cannot just wet-lease more than two while they park/retire current trunk airplanes and don’t bring more online. THIS IS HUGE as it protects what we have defined as Domestic and International flying.



I had to listen to the FDX ALPA Podcast multiple times as I felt I had to be hearing them incorrectly, but two different committe members said at least 2x (at minute 11:30 and minute 13) that the Comapny can wet-lease as much as they want right now. THIS IS INCORRECT INFORMATION based on the language of the contract. They can do as much as they want for outside of the “domestic and international” definitions (ie. within Europe)



They removed the limitation in the TA, and the penalty system even pays LOWER if they are REDUCING TOTAL FLEET SIZE! It is spelled out in their stated example! At minute 10 of the podcast, they state the exact opposite of what is actually written in the new blue language. These are the people telling us to vote for this.



However, if this TA is signed, what is to stop the following scenario:

-The company stops hiring indefinitely…as in never again.

-The company cancels all future orders as soon as the pilot group signs this TA.

-The company continues to retire airframes with the MD11s as currently planned, then the Airbus, then the 757 and eventually park or sell the 777 and 767 fleets. It will take several years for sure, but could easily happen with 10-15 years, perhaps much, much sooner.

-They just let the attrition of pilots leaving through retirement and ill-will slowly whittle down the crew force as they need and only keep as many aircraft in the trunk fleet as the current shrinking seniority list can staff. THEY NEVER EVEN HAVE TO FURLOUGH!

-Throughout this whole process above, they just continue to increase the wet-leasing to the lowest bidder as it is “economically necessary” under section 1.b.4.

-There will be penalty payments, but someone could use a spreadsheet to plan them all out…we basically just gave them a planned map as to how to get rid of the trunk operated aircraft and exactly how much it will cost them to do so.



And just like that, the entire FDX master seniority list is completely eroded over a block of time and FedEx moves along its merry way as all its air-freight movement is all done by contract flying….so any potential gain anywhere in the contract is eventually worthless.



ASL has confirmed orders for lots of 767s….they really don’t need those in Europe….what’s to stop them from setting up “ASL America”?



The Company has already stated publicly they want to use more non-purple tails, and it can be read on page 13 of the FedEx Investors Meeting Transcript – June 29, 2022. Link to full transcript:



https://s21.q4cdn.com/665674268/file...3-Q231rOn8YMR4 (https://s21.q4cdn.com/665674268/file...3-Q231rOn8YMR4)
People were worried years ago about Amazon buying us…. In that scenario, we become Amazon (air freight model)
Reply
Old 06-15-2023 | 10:36 AM
  #44  
NoHaz's Avatar
Line Holder
 
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 852
Likes: 0
From: let it snow, let it snow, let it snow
Default

Originally Posted by FrankTheTank
People were worried years ago about Amazon buying us…. In that scenario, we become Amazon (air freight model)
By the way.. Someone else has pointed out the company made a one word change to wet lease payments... They changed credit hours to block hours, a bigger cost saving scam than international to intercontinental. So much for just culture, really highlights the company intentions when they opened the scope section and reduced the limits and penalties on wet leases. So the original intent of wet leases to cover Christmas volume has transformed into the drive to reduce purple lift and crews
Reply
Old 06-15-2023 | 11:25 AM
  #45  
CloudSailor's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,097
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by NoHaz
... the company made a one word change to wet lease payments... They changed credit hours to block hours...
Wow. Nice catch.

In this TA, by its own merit, I expect significant loopholes to be exploited by the company in ways we cannot even understand (retirement scheme comes to mind), that we would not even be aware of until after it's too late.

Of course this is all IF we are stupid enough to vote it in.

I want to say no way are we going to roll over so easily, but then I think of 13-1, which is quite concerning.
Reply
Old 06-15-2023 | 11:56 AM
  #46  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Likes: 0
Default

Magic rats' post #42 lays it all out exactly. I wish every current, former and future (if any exist in this scenario) FedEx pilots would read that, and see what this company's intentions are. I wish someone could get a direct response to all of that from the negotiating committee.
Reply
Old 06-17-2023 | 08:25 AM
  #47  
Merle Haggard's Avatar
Aspiring PSA Captain
 
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 1,145
Likes: 199
Default

Originally Posted by FrankTheTank
Don’t forget open time and trip trading still garbage and broken
And SUB. Shouldn't exist at best. Should come with hotel and per diem at worst.
Reply
Old 06-17-2023 | 08:29 AM
  #48  
Merle Haggard's Avatar
Aspiring PSA Captain
 
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 1,145
Likes: 199
Default

Originally Posted by Hacker15e
It has always been mind-bending to me that the company can schedule the trip and reserve the hotel room, but take money out of our check if we don't provide a receipt for the room.

The idea that this had to be *negotiated* is simply asinine.
Hey, in other good news you also don't need a receipt under $75. Some of the domestic roach motels will qualify as receipt-free just based on their rates.
Reply
Old 06-17-2023 | 08:31 AM
  #49  
Merle Haggard's Avatar
Aspiring PSA Captain
 
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 1,145
Likes: 199
Default

Originally Posted by busdriver12
If you're turning 65 right around the corner and can't delay your retirement, then that's good on you. Very few people would turn down almost a million dollars for themselves and their heirs (if you live until 95 like we all hope for) to help others. I hope the pilots you fly with thank you often for that, and I think bitwiser is smart to say, "When we do eventually return to the negotiating table, it is imperative that we make any retirement improvements effective to everyone who was here on the amendable date. It's the only way for us to remain unified on this issue, and also the only way to prevent the company from dragging their feet every negotiating cycle without hesitation."
Age 67 may well be reality before the voting closes. It's entirely possible that it will give many of these guys an option to hold out for a legitimate contract - which is the only warped positive aspect of the change.

Last edited by Merle Haggard; 06-17-2023 at 08:46 AM.
Reply
Old 06-17-2023 | 08:39 AM
  #50  
On Reserve
 
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 176
Likes: 6
Default Scope is scary AF

The NC chair says they cannot open scope unless we’re willing to take PBS and reduce our vacation! If we’re on the way out let’s get industry leading pay during that process. It’s going to happen the same way even if we vote in favor of this concessionary TA.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Str8 Cash Homie
Major
43
09-25-2022 01:03 PM
Ed Harley
Delta
14
06-25-2015 07:49 PM
Engineer413
Flight Schools and Training
16
09-30-2013 07:14 AM
buffalopilot
Regional
67
06-11-2009 11:03 AM
vagabond
Hangar Talk
2
11-04-2006 12:12 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices