This TA needs to pass!!!
06-15-2023 | 12:32 PM
#31
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 596
Likes: 144
From: B767
…
At a fundamental level what is the Time Value of (your) Money? Please run the numbers in your own personalized scenario…What kind of raise two years from now would be required if this TA were to be rejected in order to offset the present value of the raise, signing bonus, and compounding interest on the compensation package as it now stands? Each of us has to remove emotion from the equation and decide for themselves what is best for their own future.
At a fundamental level what is the Time Value of (your) Money? Please run the numbers in your own personalized scenario…What kind of raise two years from now would be required if this TA were to be rejected in order to offset the present value of the raise, signing bonus, and compounding interest on the compensation package as it now stands? Each of us has to remove emotion from the equation and decide for themselves what is best for their own future.
06-15-2023 | 12:43 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 0
From: Gear Monkey
After initially viewing the videos and reading through the TA, I found myself disappointed. There are clear concessions regarding scope, R-24, substitution, and a number of other topics. My disappointment turned to anger…“This is the thanks I get for flying through the pandemic while my friends telecommuted, for being quarantined in hotel rooms. For showing up on time and helping to make huge profits for FedEx when others were at home asleep in their beds?”
I have always thought that pilots should not be the primary negotiators in this arena. It is simply not our forte, and these are the results…With that said it obviously benefits The Company to drag this out as long as possible. There will never be full retro pay for any additional time taken to modify the agreement, and if we reject this we will be perceived as entitled and selfish. I can see the spin now: “FedEx pilots reject $400,000/year salaries.”
Hypothetically, if there is a “No” vote where does that leave us?...A negotiating committee that must be disbanded, a Union leadership we don’t trust, and a fractured pilot group still looking at many months if not years before a new agreement can be negotiated and ratified.
A 99% strike vote surely resonated, which is a primary reason we are here. However it comes down to numbers now. The time for knee jerk reactions has passed. We had an opportunity to “strike while the iron was hot,” but is it still?…I am uncertain. What I do know is that I am tired…
At a fundamental level what is the Time Value of (your) Money? Please run the numbers in your own personalized scenario…What kind of raise two years from now would be required if this TA were to be rejected in order to offset the present value of the raise, signing bonus, and compounding interest on the compensation package as it now stands? Each of us has to remove emotion from the equation and decide for themselves what is best for their own future.
I have been struggling to understand how so many on the MEC voted to send this to us. What I am left with is that this is the best that they felt they could do….Regardless of the outcome I appreciate their efforts on our behalf.
I have always thought that pilots should not be the primary negotiators in this arena. It is simply not our forte, and these are the results…With that said it obviously benefits The Company to drag this out as long as possible. There will never be full retro pay for any additional time taken to modify the agreement, and if we reject this we will be perceived as entitled and selfish. I can see the spin now: “FedEx pilots reject $400,000/year salaries.”
Hypothetically, if there is a “No” vote where does that leave us?...A negotiating committee that must be disbanded, a Union leadership we don’t trust, and a fractured pilot group still looking at many months if not years before a new agreement can be negotiated and ratified.
A 99% strike vote surely resonated, which is a primary reason we are here. However it comes down to numbers now. The time for knee jerk reactions has passed. We had an opportunity to “strike while the iron was hot,” but is it still?…I am uncertain. What I do know is that I am tired…
At a fundamental level what is the Time Value of (your) Money? Please run the numbers in your own personalized scenario…What kind of raise two years from now would be required if this TA were to be rejected in order to offset the present value of the raise, signing bonus, and compounding interest on the compensation package as it now stands? Each of us has to remove emotion from the equation and decide for themselves what is best for their own future.
I have been struggling to understand how so many on the MEC voted to send this to us. What I am left with is that this is the best that they felt they could do….Regardless of the outcome I appreciate their efforts on our behalf.
Remove integrity - No
Consider the Time Value of Money - Sure
Limiting our TVM Horizon to just the next 2-3 Years - No
Improving Retirement (For All ) - Yes
Paying for It with Scheduling Restrictions/Concessions - No
Tired is a bad way to fly - it's also a terrible way to negotiate.
In Unity (for Everyone)
DLax
06-15-2023 | 12:46 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,201
Likes: 32
From: 4A2FU
After initially viewing the videos and reading through the TA, I found myself disappointed. There are clear concessions regarding scope, R-24, substitution, and a number of other topics. My disappointment turned to anger…“This is the thanks I get for flying through the pandemic while my friends telecommuted, for being quarantined in hotel rooms. For showing up on time and helping to make huge profits for FedEx when others were at home asleep in their beds?”
I have always thought that pilots should not be the primary negotiators in this arena. It is simply not our forte, and these are the results…With that said it obviously benefits The Company to drag this out as long as possible. There will never be full retro pay for any additional time taken to modify the agreement, and if we reject this we will be perceived as entitled and selfish. I can see the spin now: “FedEx pilots reject $400,000/year salaries.”
Hypothetically, if there is a “No” vote where does that leave us?...A negotiating committee that must be disbanded, a Union leadership we don’t trust, and a fractured pilot group still looking at many months if not years before a new agreement can be negotiated and ratified.
A 99% strike vote surely resonated, which is a primary reason we are here. However it comes down to numbers now. The time for knee jerk reactions has passed. We had an opportunity to “strike while the iron was hot,” but is it still?…I am uncertain. What I do know is that I am tired…
At a fundamental level what is the Time Value of (your) Money? Please run the numbers in your own personalized scenario…What kind of raise two years from now would be required if this TA were to be rejected in order to offset the present value of the raise, signing bonus, and compounding interest on the compensation package as it now stands? Each of us has to remove emotion from the equation and decide for themselves what is best for their own future.
I have been struggling to understand how so many on the MEC voted to send this to us. What I am left with is that this is the best that they felt they could do….Regardless of the outcome I appreciate their efforts on our behalf.
I have always thought that pilots should not be the primary negotiators in this arena. It is simply not our forte, and these are the results…With that said it obviously benefits The Company to drag this out as long as possible. There will never be full retro pay for any additional time taken to modify the agreement, and if we reject this we will be perceived as entitled and selfish. I can see the spin now: “FedEx pilots reject $400,000/year salaries.”
Hypothetically, if there is a “No” vote where does that leave us?...A negotiating committee that must be disbanded, a Union leadership we don’t trust, and a fractured pilot group still looking at many months if not years before a new agreement can be negotiated and ratified.
A 99% strike vote surely resonated, which is a primary reason we are here. However it comes down to numbers now. The time for knee jerk reactions has passed. We had an opportunity to “strike while the iron was hot,” but is it still?…I am uncertain. What I do know is that I am tired…
At a fundamental level what is the Time Value of (your) Money? Please run the numbers in your own personalized scenario…What kind of raise two years from now would be required if this TA were to be rejected in order to offset the present value of the raise, signing bonus, and compounding interest on the compensation package as it now stands? Each of us has to remove emotion from the equation and decide for themselves what is best for their own future.
I have been struggling to understand how so many on the MEC voted to send this to us. What I am left with is that this is the best that they felt they could do….Regardless of the outcome I appreciate their efforts on our behalf.
If this passes, will still won’t have a union leadership that we trust. We may never see another CBA again. We will lose hundreds if not thousands of pilot jobs. Career progression will be over. Etc.
voting yes and voting no both lead down long hard roads, but unless you’re closing in fast on retirement, voting no is the only road that might have a future for us.
06-15-2023 | 12:59 PM
#34
On Reserve
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 148
Likes: 11
From: Retired
This MEC has been putting the lotion on its skin for so long that they actually think selling out the rest of the crew force so a few pilots can get a small bump on their way out the door is worth it. Plus they finally get their wet dream of the pancake special that they have been dying to ram down our throats for the last 4 years. The are fatigued just like you and just want it to end, and are using fear tactics that it will take too long to recover our "gains" if we have to go back to the table to make it sound like we have no choice but to ratify.
Scope and our integrity are worth the delay. Vote NO.
Scope and our integrity are worth the delay. Vote NO.
Last edited by MelT; 06-15-2023 at 01:30 PM.
06-15-2023 | 01:16 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Likes: 0
It is blatantly obvious to me that the OP is either management or a troll poster. You don't say things like, " All this Scope talk, well it was not even an issue in the surveys that we all submitted, so why is it such a big deal to some of you now? You can’t just keep moving the goal posts during negotiations", unless you're scamming in some way. All pilots are aware of how critical scope is, even newhires. And if people didn't make much of an issue of it in the surveys, it's because they didn't ask the question, "Will you trade scope away for other improvements?" Scope is one of those things that people take for granted, sadly, until it is under attack. And then it is the only thing that matters.
06-15-2023 | 04:50 PM
#39
China Visa Applicant
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,964
Likes: 16
From: Midfield downwind
We'll all have plenty of time to think about the money when the ramp is full of ACMI jets painted purple and white with "FedEx, Operated by Atlas Air" on the nose.
Counting those sweet, sweet $400 wet lease penalty payments.
Counting those sweet, sweet $400 wet lease penalty payments.
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