This TA needs to pass!!!
06-15-2023 | 07:21 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
The ones that come weeks late? Good stuff right there
06-15-2023 | 07:35 PM
#42
On Reserve
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Hypothetically, if there is a “No” vote where does that leave us?...A negotiating committee that must be disbanded, a Union leadership we don’t trust, and a fractured pilot group still looking at many months if not years before a new agreement can be negotiated and ratified.
At a fundamental level what is the Time Value of (your) Money? Please run the numbers in your own personalized scenario…What kind of raise two years from now would be required if this TA were to be rejected in order to offset the present value of the raise, signing bonus, and compounding interest on the compensation package as it now stands? Each of us has to remove emotion from the equation and decide for themselves what is best for their own future.
I have been struggling to understand how so many on the MEC voted to send this to us. What I am left with is that this is the best that they felt they could do….Regardless of the outcome I appreciate their efforts on our behalf.
06-16-2023 | 04:23 AM
#43
Thread Starter
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
I don't buy the "TVM and "the NC will all be fired" unless we vote YES argument. Basically its another way of saying our votes don't really count because anything other than YES is catastrophic. That sounds alot like China. Even the communists get a vote, although as the argument goes, voting No is not an option.
After initially viewing the videos and reading through the TA, I found myself disappointed. There are clear concessions regarding scope, R-24, substitution, and a number of other topics. My disappointment turned to anger…“This is the thanks I get for flying through the pandemic while my friends telecommuted, for being quarantined in hotel rooms. For showing up on time and helping to make huge profits for FedEx when others were at home asleep in their beds?”
I have always thought that pilots should not be the primary negotiators in this arena. It is simply not our forte, and these are the results…With that said it obviously benefits The Company to drag this out as long as possible. There will never be full retro pay for any additional time taken to modify the agreement, and if we reject this we will be perceived as entitled and selfish. I can see the spin now: “FedEx pilots reject $400,000/year salaries.”
Hypothetically, if there is a “No” vote where does that leave us?...A negotiating committee that must be disbanded, a Union leadership we don’t trust, and a fractured pilot group still looking at many months if not years before a new agreement can be negotiated and ratified.
A 99% strike vote surely resonated, which is a primary reason we are here. However it comes down to numbers now. The time for knee jerk reactions has passed. We had an opportunity to “strike while the iron was hot,” but is it still?…I am uncertain. What I do know is that I am tired…
At a fundamental level what is the Time Value of (your) Money? Please run the numbers in your own personalized scenario…What kind of raise two years from now would be required if this TA were to be rejected in order to offset the present value of the raise, signing bonus, and compounding interest on the compensation package as it now stands? Each of us has to remove emotion from the equation and decide for themselves what is best for their own future.
I have been struggling to understand how so many on the MEC voted to send this to us. What I am left with is that this is the best that they felt they could do….Regardless of the outcome I appreciate their efforts on our behalf.
I have always thought that pilots should not be the primary negotiators in this arena. It is simply not our forte, and these are the results…With that said it obviously benefits The Company to drag this out as long as possible. There will never be full retro pay for any additional time taken to modify the agreement, and if we reject this we will be perceived as entitled and selfish. I can see the spin now: “FedEx pilots reject $400,000/year salaries.”
Hypothetically, if there is a “No” vote where does that leave us?...A negotiating committee that must be disbanded, a Union leadership we don’t trust, and a fractured pilot group still looking at many months if not years before a new agreement can be negotiated and ratified.
A 99% strike vote surely resonated, which is a primary reason we are here. However it comes down to numbers now. The time for knee jerk reactions has passed. We had an opportunity to “strike while the iron was hot,” but is it still?…I am uncertain. What I do know is that I am tired…
At a fundamental level what is the Time Value of (your) Money? Please run the numbers in your own personalized scenario…What kind of raise two years from now would be required if this TA were to be rejected in order to offset the present value of the raise, signing bonus, and compounding interest on the compensation package as it now stands? Each of us has to remove emotion from the equation and decide for themselves what is best for their own future.
I have been struggling to understand how so many on the MEC voted to send this to us. What I am left with is that this is the best that they felt they could do….Regardless of the outcome I appreciate their efforts on our behalf.
!!!!YES!!!!
06-16-2023 | 04:29 AM
#44
Thread Starter
On Reserve
Joined: Jun 2023
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Fellow Council 7 members,
Following are my thoughts and rationale for having, as one of your Representatives on your MEC, voted in favor of the Tentative Agreement (TA).
The TA’s improvements alone exceed more than $600,000 on a per-pilot basis over the first four years, and the total per-pilot cost to the company, at $2.3 million, absolutely crushes the recent DAL per-pilot figure of $1.6 million. Once ratified, this agreement will unquestionably make you a more highly compensated pilot than your counterparts at Delta or American.
It was made quite apparent to all MEC members and your Negotiating Committee in recent years, through surveys and personal discussions with you, the membership, that meaningful and permanent improvements to your retirement benefits has been one of your primary goals. For many, it is the primary goal. There can be no question that FedEx pilots, flying the most difficult schedules and deserving the best contract, will now possess retirement plans which are far and away the best in the industry, bar none. Having been around for the last couple of years, the comment I heard the most was, "Give us a choice!" This TA provides for an astounding (and previously deemed by some to be unachievable) 30% increase in the defined benefit (A-plan) or an incredibly lucrative Market-Based Cash Balance Plan with credit for your time in the legacy plan, but a 290 FAE cap. We delivered on your desire for a choice! Furthermore, this was accomplished while also meeting your other primary goals, such as providing industry-leading compensation and preserving your industry-leading vacation policies.
I’m asking for your “yes” vote because I’ve seen the details and have no doubt about the answer. The information convinced me despite my having questions and concerns as we went through this process. Before forming your own opinion—let alone advocating a position either for or against this TA—avail yourself of all forthcoming information from your Negotiating Committee and MEC Reps.
I am personally committed to hearing and addressing all comments, questions, or concerns expressed in the coming weeks so as to enable your own informed opinions from an unbiased, level playing field.
Yours faithfully,
Some education for all the uneducated “NO “ voters out there!!!!
!!!!YES!!!!!
Following are my thoughts and rationale for having, as one of your Representatives on your MEC, voted in favor of the Tentative Agreement (TA).
The TA’s improvements alone exceed more than $600,000 on a per-pilot basis over the first four years, and the total per-pilot cost to the company, at $2.3 million, absolutely crushes the recent DAL per-pilot figure of $1.6 million. Once ratified, this agreement will unquestionably make you a more highly compensated pilot than your counterparts at Delta or American.
It was made quite apparent to all MEC members and your Negotiating Committee in recent years, through surveys and personal discussions with you, the membership, that meaningful and permanent improvements to your retirement benefits has been one of your primary goals. For many, it is the primary goal. There can be no question that FedEx pilots, flying the most difficult schedules and deserving the best contract, will now possess retirement plans which are far and away the best in the industry, bar none. Having been around for the last couple of years, the comment I heard the most was, "Give us a choice!" This TA provides for an astounding (and previously deemed by some to be unachievable) 30% increase in the defined benefit (A-plan) or an incredibly lucrative Market-Based Cash Balance Plan with credit for your time in the legacy plan, but a 290 FAE cap. We delivered on your desire for a choice! Furthermore, this was accomplished while also meeting your other primary goals, such as providing industry-leading compensation and preserving your industry-leading vacation policies.
I’m asking for your “yes” vote because I’ve seen the details and have no doubt about the answer. The information convinced me despite my having questions and concerns as we went through this process. Before forming your own opinion—let alone advocating a position either for or against this TA—avail yourself of all forthcoming information from your Negotiating Committee and MEC Reps.
I am personally committed to hearing and addressing all comments, questions, or concerns expressed in the coming weeks so as to enable your own informed opinions from an unbiased, level playing field.
Yours faithfully,
Some education for all the uneducated “NO “ voters out there!!!!
!!!!YES!!!!!
06-16-2023 | 06:30 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 414
Likes: 0
From: Fetal in the hub
our current pay rates WB CA $335.56 starts at a lower comparative value and increases less than 30% over 42 months.
Delta starting at a higher number increases 31% in 36 months.
That IS NOT Industry Leading pay and if you factor in profit sharing it certainly doesn't blow anything away. In fact they barely keep up with historic marginal rates of inflation.
Sure we MIGHT have the highest payrate for a 767-300 for now but the 777 and 757 pilots will set an industry low.
So now you get credit for not giving away more in Section 7?? YGBSM?!!! This is who you want negotiating for you?!!
A good deal wouldn't have to be explained. Who is willing to give up all the rest for meager increases in retirement? We've had to live with setbacks for 8 years since the 2015 agreement. They certainly didn't mention in 2015 all the money the company would save by replacing Passover pay with slot denial pay or the material changes to scheduling. Now we're supposed to accept additional setbacks because the MEC and NC doesn't think those things are important?
R16 will heavily impact people in ANC and OAK in a time when it may take years to change bases.
the 3100+ people hired here since the last contract was signed came here knowing what the existing pension is. The idea that they'd be willing to sacrifice pay and work rules in order to get a better retirement is ludicrous.
Let me tell you why the company "gave" on retirement. They saw an opportunity to remove the least productive and most expensive workers from the top and replace them with lower paid more productive workers on the bottom. This wasn't a win for US. They are counting on those guys leaving. PM even said it in the video. If those guys leave that's more opportunities for the lower seniority guys. What he left out was to work longer and harder for less pay.
If we sign this deal we will not be cheering how good it feels to have all these retirement gains. We will be sitting in bewilderment while our incomes stay flat due to the company reducing BH and outsourcing flying that should have been ours.
MARK MY WORDS!!!!
Delta starting at a higher number increases 31% in 36 months.
That IS NOT Industry Leading pay and if you factor in profit sharing it certainly doesn't blow anything away. In fact they barely keep up with historic marginal rates of inflation.
Sure we MIGHT have the highest payrate for a 767-300 for now but the 777 and 757 pilots will set an industry low.
preserving your industry-leading vacation policies
A good deal wouldn't have to be explained. Who is willing to give up all the rest for meager increases in retirement? We've had to live with setbacks for 8 years since the 2015 agreement. They certainly didn't mention in 2015 all the money the company would save by replacing Passover pay with slot denial pay or the material changes to scheduling. Now we're supposed to accept additional setbacks because the MEC and NC doesn't think those things are important?
R16 will heavily impact people in ANC and OAK in a time when it may take years to change bases.
the 3100+ people hired here since the last contract was signed came here knowing what the existing pension is. The idea that they'd be willing to sacrifice pay and work rules in order to get a better retirement is ludicrous.
Let me tell you why the company "gave" on retirement. They saw an opportunity to remove the least productive and most expensive workers from the top and replace them with lower paid more productive workers on the bottom. This wasn't a win for US. They are counting on those guys leaving. PM even said it in the video. If those guys leave that's more opportunities for the lower seniority guys. What he left out was to work longer and harder for less pay.
If we sign this deal we will not be cheering how good it feels to have all these retirement gains. We will be sitting in bewilderment while our incomes stay flat due to the company reducing BH and outsourcing flying that should have been ours.
MARK MY WORDS!!!!
06-16-2023 | 06:31 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,203
Likes: 0
From: Gear Monkey
06-16-2023 | 08:36 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 290
Likes: 0
From: DA-40
our current pay rates WB CA $335.56 starts at a lower comparative value and increases less than 30% over 42 months.
Delta starting at a higher number increases 31% in 36 months.
That IS NOT Industry Leading pay and if you factor in profit sharing it certainly doesn't blow anything away. In fact they barely keep up with historic marginal rates of inflation.
Sure we MIGHT have the highest payrate for a 767-300 for now but the 777 and 757 pilots will set an industry low.
So now you get credit for not giving away more in Section 7?? YGBSM?!!! This is who you want negotiating for you?!!
A good deal wouldn't have to be explained. Who is willing to give up all the rest for meager increases in retirement? We've had to live with setbacks for 8 years since the 2015 agreement. They certainly didn't mention in 2015 all the money the company would save by replacing Passover pay with slot denial pay or the material changes to scheduling. Now we're supposed to accept additional setbacks because the MEC and NC doesn't think those things are important?
R16 will heavily impact people in ANC and OAK in a time when it may take years to change bases.
the 3100+ people hired here since the last contract was signed came here knowing what the existing pension is. The idea that they'd be willing to sacrifice pay and work rules in order to get a better retirement is ludicrous.
Let me tell you why the company "gave" on retirement. They saw an opportunity to remove the least productive and most expensive workers from the top and replace them with lower paid more productive workers on the bottom. This wasn't a win for US. They are counting on those guys leaving. PM even said it in the video. If those guys leave that's more opportunities for the lower seniority guys. What he left out was to work longer and harder for less pay.
If we sign this deal we will not be cheering how good it feels to have all these retirement gains. We will be sitting in bewilderment while our incomes stay flat due to the company reducing BH and outsourcing flying that should have been ours.
MARK MY WORDS!!!!
Delta starting at a higher number increases 31% in 36 months.
That IS NOT Industry Leading pay and if you factor in profit sharing it certainly doesn't blow anything away. In fact they barely keep up with historic marginal rates of inflation.
Sure we MIGHT have the highest payrate for a 767-300 for now but the 777 and 757 pilots will set an industry low.
So now you get credit for not giving away more in Section 7?? YGBSM?!!! This is who you want negotiating for you?!!
A good deal wouldn't have to be explained. Who is willing to give up all the rest for meager increases in retirement? We've had to live with setbacks for 8 years since the 2015 agreement. They certainly didn't mention in 2015 all the money the company would save by replacing Passover pay with slot denial pay or the material changes to scheduling. Now we're supposed to accept additional setbacks because the MEC and NC doesn't think those things are important?
R16 will heavily impact people in ANC and OAK in a time when it may take years to change bases.
the 3100+ people hired here since the last contract was signed came here knowing what the existing pension is. The idea that they'd be willing to sacrifice pay and work rules in order to get a better retirement is ludicrous.
Let me tell you why the company "gave" on retirement. They saw an opportunity to remove the least productive and most expensive workers from the top and replace them with lower paid more productive workers on the bottom. This wasn't a win for US. They are counting on those guys leaving. PM even said it in the video. If those guys leave that's more opportunities for the lower seniority guys. What he left out was to work longer and harder for less pay.
If we sign this deal we will not be cheering how good it feels to have all these retirement gains. We will be sitting in bewilderment while our incomes stay flat due to the company reducing BH and outsourcing flying that should have been ours.
MARK MY WORDS!!!!
06-16-2023 | 10:19 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,201
Likes: 32
From: 4A2FU
Agree with most of your analysis. Except for one reason. The company “gave” on retirement because they could sunset the A plan on this contract and implement the pancake-lite plan (for everyone hired after 31 Jul, effectively shelving the A plan). It wasn’t enough of an improvement — in fact, to many it was a disappointment, on the retirement pay increases. This isn’t a real carrot for them to retire earlier
06-16-2023 | 10:58 AM
#50
Disinterested Third Party
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 6,758
Likes: 74
It's worth noting that "Boomerbus" spammed other threads with copy-and-paste of his original post to this thread:
MEC Votes 13-1 IN FAVOR
TA is out in PDF
The original poster used cut-and-paste portions of original post here, elsewhere:
How to pass this TA with 50 +1
It's not worth giving credence to those who offer so little thought in the conversation that they simply cut and paste their comments repeatedly.
The ignore-feature works well.
MEC Votes 13-1 IN FAVOR
TA is out in PDF
The original poster used cut-and-paste portions of original post here, elsewhere:
How to pass this TA with 50 +1
It's not worth giving credence to those who offer so little thought in the conversation that they simply cut and paste their comments repeatedly.
The ignore-feature works well.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
