Originally Posted by Rain maker

It has been interesting to say the least to watch the development of the players in our new MEC as well as the hopefuls trying to get a seat at the table. I am being completely honest in saying that Billy Williams was an unknown to me and I have watched him with an open mind. But as any chess game progresses and more moves are made, things become more and more clear. Let’s start with something simple. Cliff Camomille put out an informational text to Block 6 pilots. With so many people that have “turned off” the union mess and are completely unaware of the facts at hand, it was a brilliant move in an attempt to educate fellow pilots. It was 100% LEGAL and was filled with pertinent facts. It painted a clear picture of the recent LEC 26 history. It showed when and where the Dec 8th voting will be and encouraged people to come vote to make their voices heard. There was zero attempt to make anyone believe this was an official union product. Cliff’s name was on it, not the union’s. So why didn’t the union just let this ride? After all they have remained silent throughout all of the political targeting going on in the Silent Majority group. This was clearly a perfectly legal political text trying to “get out the vote”. So why comment on this? Because this text told the truth they don’t want the pilot masses to know. The management central SM group are the only ones that are supposed to have the power of influence!!! Don’t you know that? Cliff pointed out how LEC 26 put negotiations 3.5 months behind schedule by delaying their LEC meeting in an attempt to avoid being recalled. The writing was clear what would happen to LEC 26 after LEC 22 promptly recalled their gutless reps and then the pilot group kept on going. Contrary to what the “Establishment” group is saying, this was not a “knee-jerk reaction”. This was a product of a terrible TA, then lie after lie to sell it, then threat after threat because the lies weren’t working. This was anything but knee-jerk. This was an organic movement to change the course of the MEC. But the tone def establishment doesn’t want anyone to see this. THEY CAN’T SEE THIS. They are too busy trying to claim the “pilot’s got it wrong”. So when Cliff pointed this out to the masses, they got scared. This prompted the Union email from Rich Odbert, who is running the LEC 26 election:




“Please be advised that such messages have nothing to do with the official organization or operation of the LEC 26 meeting on December 8th. (and here comes the bias) They appear to be partisan campaign messages which you should consider accordingly.”




Now we all know what “tainting the well” is and the next line does its best to do just that!




“As you should, many of you have reached out to me with legitimate questions and/or express interest in your union.”




Translation: Some people have put out their own messages that are counter to what the establishment union wants and that is extremely bad. The rest of you have played nicely and will be rewarded by your sheepish behavior so shut up and keep coloring. The email goes on to try and discredit the text by claiming “misleading information and rumors” following the Main Stream Media playbook almost to a tee. Here is the problem. If you think this email came from Rich Odbert in a vacuum then you probably aren’t smart enough to be a pilot. This was definitely consulted with and put out with close supervision and the blessing of Billy Wilson. This clearly shows which side of the coin he is on.




If that example doesn’t convince you then maybe this will. Chris Turner, and many, many more have been extremely worried as to the EXTREMELY DIVISIVE RHETORIC coming from the SM group. Even more concerning is the fact that so many people from management have been part of this management group. History has shown that this type of behavior has led to people being fired and lawsuits against ALPA, yet Billy Wilson has refused to even put out a statement to admonish the behavior in any way. Why? Perhaps because this group just happens to be part of the Pat May establishment club that Billy wants negotiating. This is clearly picking sides. Let’s be clear about what Chris Turner did. This was in every respect a “whistle blower” type moment. After seeing troubling behavior that was concrete in nature and also had evidence that Billy might be included, Turner gathered data as he should. Is he going to go to the very people that may be implicated? Of course not! He went to ALPA national and asked their legal team, which was 100% the right thing to do. The outcome of those talks was predictable. Turner was perfectly legal to have his own comms and display the facts and data to the piloting group. ALPA national also wanted to stay away from this mess as much as possible so they essentially “looked the other way”. Billy Williams has preached about transparency as part of being the way forward, so why would he refuse to let Turner publish the findings he had found? He admitted in his own email that he did not want this data to be published. Why not continue transparency? Because the findings were so egregious that he was afraid the pilot group would see the truth. The ugliness of the SM group that was filled with management and was pushing the three establishment candidates for the new LEC 26 interim REP positions: Campbell, Grenier and Farley. These three pawns need to be elected in order to continue with the establishment agenda and with the SM group that is so squarely behind them…..Billy can’t have anything that would show their true colors and possibly contribute to them losing the election. So I ask Billy Wilson. Why won’t you let your block reps speak freely? You are more than happy to let Odbert taint the well and Lord knows you will let Pat O’dell spew email after email filled with vomitous BS, but the muzzle must be on Turner?…..

I personally would like to thank Turner for his diligence and honesty in bringing to light the poor behavior and hidden collusion to the Silent Minority piloting group. He presented nothing other than this groups own words!!! And they are DAMNING and anything but cohesive or promoting stability




The chess game is progressing. Billy Wilson has now shown his true colors…..




Regarding the LEC 26 elections…..The pilots have already spoken. They voted in three block reps with a vote that was double the numbers of what it normally is. The SM group and reps that are trying to undermine this vote are cowards and will most likely delay a new contract by many more months if voted in by creating massive instability. The old LEC 26 reps have already delayed progress by 3.5 months and installing more instability until March when the real elected reps step in will delay another 4 months. Maybe we should start an SM/LEC26/establishment ticker? These people just can’t let a natural democracy run its course!!!

Originally Posted by Rain maker

It has been interesting to say the least to watch the development of the players in our new MEC as well as the hopefuls trying to get a seat at the table. I am being completely honest in saying that Billy Williams was an unknown to me and I have watched him with an open mind. But as any chess game progresses and more moves are made, things become more and more clear. Let’s start with something simple. Cliff Camomille put out an informational text to Block 6 pilots. With so many people that have “turned off” the union mess and are completely unaware of the facts at hand, it was a brilliant move in an attempt to educate fellow pilots. It was 100% LEGAL and was filled with pertinent facts. It painted a clear picture of the recent LEC 26 history. It showed when and where the Dec 8th voting will be and encouraged people to come vote to make their voices heard. There was zero attempt to make anyone believe this was an official union product. Cliff’s name was on it, not the union’s. So why didn’t the union just let this ride? After all they have remained silent throughout all of the political targeting going on in the Silent Majority group. This was clearly a perfectly legal political text trying to “get out the vote”. So why comment on this? Because this text told the truth they don’t want the pilot masses to know. The management central SM group are the only ones that are supposed to have the power of influence!!! Don’t you know that? Cliff pointed out how LEC 26 put negotiations 3.5 months behind schedule by delaying their LEC meeting in an attempt to avoid being recalled. The writing was clear what would happen to LEC 26 after LEC 22 promptly recalled their gutless reps and then the pilot group kept on going. Contrary to what the “Establishment” group is saying, this was not a “knee-jerk reaction”. This was a product of a terrible TA, then lie after lie to sell it, then threat after threat because the lies weren’t working. This was anything but knee-jerk. This was an organic movement to change the course of the MEC. But the tone def establishment doesn’t want anyone to see this. THEY CAN’T SEE THIS. They are too busy trying to claim the “pilot’s got it wrong”. So when Cliff pointed this out to the masses, they got scared. This prompted the Union email from Rich Odbert, who is running the LEC 26 election:




“Please be advised that such messages have nothing to do with the official organization or operation of the LEC 26 meeting on December 8th. (and here comes the bias) They appear to be partisan campaign messages which you should consider accordingly.”




Now we all know what “tainting the well” is and the next line does its best to do just that!




“As you should, many of you have reached out to me with legitimate questions and/or express interest in your union.”




Translation: Some people have put out their own messages that are counter to what the establishment union wants and that is extremely bad. The rest of you have played nicely and will be rewarded by your sheepish behavior so shut up and keep coloring. The email goes on to try and discredit the text by claiming “misleading information and rumors” following the Main Stream Media playbook almost to a tee. Here is the problem. If you think this email came from Rich Odbert in a vacuum then you probably aren’t smart enough to be a pilot. This was definitely consulted with and put out with close supervision and the blessing of Billy Wilson. This clearly shows which side of the coin he is on.




If that example doesn’t convince you then maybe this will. Chris Turner, and many, many more have been extremely worried as to the EXTREMELY DIVISIVE RHETORIC coming from the SM group. Even more concerning is the fact that so many people from management have been part of this management group. History has shown that this type of behavior has led to people being fired and lawsuits against ALPA, yet Billy Wilson has refused to even put out a statement to admonish the behavior in any way. Why? Perhaps because this group just happens to be part of the Pat May establishment club that Billy wants negotiating. This is clearly picking sides. Let’s be clear about what Chris Turner did. This was in every respect a “whistle blower” type moment. After seeing troubling behavior that was concrete in nature and also had evidence that Billy might be included, Turner gathered data as he should. Is he going to go to the very people that may be implicated? Of course not! He went to ALPA national and asked their legal team, which was 100% the right thing to do. The outcome of those talks was predictable. Turner was perfectly legal to have his own comms and display the facts and data to the piloting group. ALPA national also wanted to stay away from this mess as much as possible so they essentially “looked the other way”. Billy Williams has preached about transparency as part of being the way forward, so why would he refuse to let Turner publish the findings he had found? He admitted in his own email that he did not want this data to be published. Why not continue transparency? Because the findings were so egregious that he was afraid the pilot group would see the truth. The ugliness of the SM group that was filled with management and was pushing the three establishment candidates for the new LEC 26 interim REP positions: Campbell, Grenier and Farley. These three pawns need to be elected in order to continue with the establishment agenda and with the SM group that is so squarely behind them…..Billy can’t have anything that would show their true colors and possibly contribute to them losing the election. So I ask Billy Wilson. Why won’t you let your block reps speak freely? You are more than happy to let Odbert taint the well and Lord knows you will let Pat O’dell spew email after email filled with vomitous BS, but the muzzle must be on Turner?…..

I personally would like to thank Turner for his diligence and honesty in bringing to light the poor behavior and hidden collusion to the Silent Minority piloting group. He presented nothing other than this groups own words!!! And they are DAMNING and anything but cohesive or promoting stability




The chess game is progressing. Billy Wilson has now shown his true colors…..




Regarding the LEC 26 elections…..The pilots have already spoken. They voted in three block reps with a vote that was double the numbers of what it normally is. The SM group and reps that are trying to undermine this vote are cowards and will most likely delay a new contract by many more months if voted in by creating massive instability. The old LEC 26 reps have already delayed progress by 3.5 months and installing more instability until March when the real elected reps step in will delay another 4 months. Maybe we should start an SM/LEC26/establishment ticker? These people just can’t let a natural democracy run its course!!!

Originally Posted by Dave Behnke

Actually, that's not true. Under the LMRDA, there can be no restriction on the communication a local union representative has with their constituents. As a matter of fact, the other way around, interfering with a representative's communication is a sure way to get into really serious trouble with the Department of Labor.

Now is it good sense to run it through the lawyers, probably, but required? No.