Worth staying?
 

Is there any reason to stay at FX any longer or is this place going to continue to die long term. My original thought was to wait for the contract and maybe a large amount of retirements would come afterwards and maybe in a year or two the stagnation would reverse to hiring again but I just don’t know anymore. I can’t stand our domestic nb flying and it’s looking more and more like I will be stuck on the 75 for the foreseeable future. What is a reason to stay here anymore?

My main reasons for coming here in the first place were simple but they all seem to be a thing of the past.

1. Main reason I came here was simply for higher pay. I thought with a majority fleet of wb’s I would see wb pay longer in my career especially in the left seat which takes a long time to hold at legacy’s. (Also had no idea some of our own guys including our NC would try to argue why our primarily wb fleet shouldn’t command wb rates) Little did I know I’d be stuck in right seat nb when I could be left seat nb at any pax carrier already making double what I make now.
2. came thinking this company basically printed money and it wasn’t susceptible to career changing downturns. Now this could be argued that if where we are now is as bad as it gets then it’s partially true that even in bad times the worst you see here is stagnation and low blgs.
3. came to fly interesting and different international routes. No I’m flying to the same awful cities staying in the same awful hotels I have been for 10 years.
4. Loved the idea of FDA’s. Both dead probably to never return again.
5. Wanted to avoid pax fa’s and security every day. That’s accomplished but doesn’t come with its own annoyances you don’t realize. Can’t get anything resembling a healthy meal anywhere in aoc. Catering is disgusting. And the constant bag drag into a bus off a bus into another bus on a security belt off a security belt etc. Our egregiously ridiculous tech and websites. My god we don’t even have an app to look at schedules or book jumpseats. All just minor annoyances but so was pax, fa’s, security for me.

I don’t completely hate it here and I know there is good flying to be had with seniority but our domestic am flying is horrendous and I have no interest in doing only that for the next 30 years when I could fly those routes in the daytime at pax and catch a jumpseat home when I am done with my trip instead of 6 hours later like our system. I’ve had two legacy’s basically cold call me recently with voicemails to go to interviews and I’m starting to really think about taking a move more seriously.

Buh bye...................... :-)

If you're under 40 I'd run. I think your assessment is correct.

The one thing we all missed in our assessment was the possibility of all of the positive factors being eliminated from within by the company.

That’s where you showed you’re lying. Unless you had active applications. But that wouldn’t be considered a cold call.

6. Do you like the idea of a divided retirement? divided pilot group for most of the rest of your career? Good luck to us with future TA negotiations if that happens.
7. Do you like Memphis? is it worth the risk of getting shot in your crash pad while you sleep? Run off the road or shot at while driving to work? Do you enjoy paying for your own crash pad for training while most legacy pilots don't?
8. Do you enjoy our low trip rigs that keep you away from home for more calendar days to secure the same monthly credit as a legacy airline pilot?
9. Are you willing to gamble your career on the fact that the small amount of flying at FedEx that doesn't suck is not guaranteed to stay because ALPA refuses to negotiate for UPS level scope to protect it?
10. Do you like the fact that if you accidently bring a prohibited item through our security, the penalty is significantly worse here than what a pax carrier pilot would face?
11. Do you like flying at night for the same or less as your peers make to fly during the day?
12. Do you like not having 24/7 contract enforcement available to prevent scheduling from their shenanigans?
13. Do you like the idea having money stolen or borrowed from your check due to expense report audit incompetency?
14. Do you like getting locked in foreign hotel rooms for days on end, being exposed to unknown chemicals, being served awful food, for no extra money?
15. Do you like having to pay monthly for an app to make bidding and trip trading possible?
16. Do you like being ignored when you ask contract enforcement to file a grievance?
17. Do you like being told that a status quo violation is not going to be contested because it's not a contract violation?
18. Do you like having your insite requests for urgent help ignored for months on end?
19. Do you like getting revised with no extra pay off of a trip you were looking forward to while your jumpseater gets draft pay to fly your more desirable trip?
20. Do you like getting harassed with irregularity reports for calling out sick?
21. Do you like getting awarded a new plane/seat and not having any idea of what year you'll go to training or start getting paid for that seat?
22. Do you like the idea that our next TA will likely allow captains and FOs senior to you to not use any of their vacation and just add it on top of their BLG, which will stagnate your career even more?
23. Do you like the idea of possibly not getting paid for a trip on your line because the company decided to cancel it or change the equipment after you commuted into base?
24. Do you like not getting per diem when you fly an O&B?
25. Do you like not getting paid if they cancel your recurrent training?
26. Do you like hauling around hazardous DG for no extra pay?
27. Do you like riding in economy for 10 hours because the company waited too long to buy a business class ticket and now its sold out?
28. Do you like not having a usable commuter policy?
29. Do you like the idea that the company can extend you up to 1.5/3.5 days off on a domestic/international trip with no restored day off policy?
30. Do you like having layovers less than 10 hours?
31. Do you like not getting profit sharing?
32. Do you like saving the company thousands on deviation and not even seeing a small percentage of that on your check or via profit sharing?
33. Do you like not seeing uniform allowance, international overrides, and other dollar amounts in the CBA being increased to compensate for inflation each bargaining cycle?
34. Do you like the fact that we have one of the worst parental leave policies?
35. Do you enjoy the fact that they can call you out on RA or RB and you have to be there in 60 minutes or less?

This company is printing money, and they are sending the extra billions to shareholders. The issue is that a sizeable part of the pilot group feels like they need to keep their friends in middle managment happy by accepting TAs that just move money around instead of impacting the company's bottom line/shareholder returns. Some of them play dirty and harass/intimidate those who stand up for themselves. Some even go so far as to harass pilots that leave to escape the culture here. Do you want to work with those kind of people that will put a target on your back just because you're not willing to bend over for the company when it comes time to negotiate a contract?

Overall this is a great job, there are some really great aspects to it, but we are getting left in the dust by the entire rest of the industry, even the regionals, and not only do we have to fight the company to be compensated and treated how we should be, but we unfortunately have the burden of also having to fight the pro-company part of the pilot group that is obstructing our fight at every step of the way.

Did you miss the “basically” part? Yes I have apps in at both that I haven’t updated or even looked at in years. No letters of rec on the apps or any effort on my part whatsoever to me is essentially a cold call. I apologize for lying to you.

[QUOTE=ogarmyopar;3746739]Is there any reason to stay at FX any longer or is this place going to continue to die long term. My original thought was to wait for the contract and maybe a large amount of retirements would come afterwards and maybe in a year or two the stagnation would reverse to hiring again but I just don’t know anymore. I can’t stand our domestic nb flying and it’s looking more and more like I will be stuck on the 75 for the foreseeable future. What is a reason to stay here anymore?

Yes. Leave now, after the massive hiring wave at the legacies. Of course the legacies will never go through contract negotiations ever again, furlough.

The legacy airline unions did better at negotiating while on the brink of bankruptcy and furlough during covid than we did during the same time. Their companies were losing billions while we made billions.

United even secured a 5% raise during that time. DL secured MBCBP during that time. Then they secured some pretty solid TAs afterward. DL's TA came out as they were barely beginnign to turn a profit. We, on the other hand, gave up the farm despite posting insane profits and still posting profits now.

Even UPS's weak contract extension made us look like clowns.

If you'd had an application in the past with a background they want, they'll call these days. Been that way for about a year...

Yes. Leave now, after the massive hiring wave at the legacies. Of course the legacies will never go through contract negotiations ever again, furlough.[/QUOTE]

Do you have anything worthwhile to contribute about the state of FX or just want to keep claiming the legacies will falter somehow. What if they don’t? You don’t know the answer to that but the stagnation and problems at FX are very real right now. I wouldn’t have even considered this job if I had even half the insite I do now.

Does the amount of retirements we have which is significant save this place at all?

Not when the seniority list is shrinking as well

Do you realize that legacy NB FOs made about 50k on contract signing bonuses and are about to see another 20k this year in profit sharing. That’s half of what I make in a year in bonuses alone.

I don’t care how old you are, this place has gone to —— with no hope of salvation. whenever hiring does resume, only the least qualified, least skilled pilots will interview here, and the company seems to be fine with this. at least until we have an uptick in incidents and asaps, and declines in package delivery.

Sounds like plzdntfireme didn't do his home work before coming here and only looked at the COVID $. Sure there are lots of things to fix, but some are just plain out crying.

Biggest one is weapons punshment. When was the last time a major had a disgruntled employee come on company property and kill numerous employees? The rule is there for a good reason. You can't remember to leave your weapons at home? Do you forget at a party we are not allowed to do drugs too?

Your life must be so hard. And the FX TA will have a signing bonus and pay raises. What do you think happens every contract cycle at every airline. Every new TA puts someone ahead of others until the next company gets their TA. You might want to try a different job if this process is so difficult. And why you come to APC for any type of sane advice?

Cant you just bid the 777? Why continue to suffer on the nb when you can fly that? I’d stay, you’ll still be a widebody capt at least a decade sooner than if you went to a legacy.

Yeah, you don't know what you don't know. I wasn't expecting this job to be perfect, but I wasn't expecting all of that either. I'm going to stick it out, but I am frustrated that nobody around here ever wants to make anything better, and they will fight you if you try.

I’m just not as tough as you so the stagnation and question marks about the future of this company as a pilot are stressing me out. You again haven’t contributed anything useful to the conversation. Do you see any way this story ends up well for a junior pilot at FedEx? Weak shipping demand, Amazon, reduced pilot, single pilot, shrinking list, outsourcing, weak scope, restructuring the entire company.

That’s an understatement. It’s a look of fear in some of their eyes when you speak of other improvements at other airlines. Like it’s horrific to ask something from FedEx to improve everyone’s life. Pure Stockholm Syndrome.

Easier said than done with our archaic training bids and stagnation.

No I can’t we only have a bid once a year and they are retiring airplanes so a bid isn’t even a real bid. They call it a realignment bid so you can only bid to a new fleet if you have been displaced off of your fleet or your base is closing. Furthermore once you do get an award it generally takes years to actually go to training on the new fleet. They are still training from the 2021 bid right now. Most of the FO’s quitting are junior 75 pilots so 75 FO is actually properly staffed right now and a few months ago semi understaffed so we are locked in the seat essentially until all the fleet retirements happen.

I assume you aren’t at FX just based on your question.. you wouldn’t believe how backwards some things are done here. Almost like trying to understand aerodynamics for the first time as a student pilot. Everything I thought was actually the opposite.

Not at FedEx. Would still go if they called, but they moved from number 1 on my list to 5 after they announced the cgn closure. Why couldn’t they bid the 777? New hires were getting it when they were hiring from what I remember..

I was hired in june 1998, big Union battle, negotiations sucked I was two weeks from getting furloughed. On the back of the 727 every captain telling me to leave and go some where better. Guys in my reserve unit at united got huge raises making $175 an hour in the right seat of a 747, I was making $60 on the panel i think. Now I have been a wide body captain for 13 years and I was hired at the end of the 95-98 hiring spree. Those hired in 95 have been WB captains for 20 years. at united or Delta my peers just made wide body capt a few years ago. Timing and luck is everything.

Glad I stayed and didn't go to Delta as I had interviews the same month. Then things went bad, real bad for the pax carriers for almost 20 years. Now they are doing well, will it continue? Fedex is still making a lot of money, shifting things around to increase profits. We will eventually get a contract. Not everyone will be happy. look on the Delta and United boards, they complain about their new contracts all the time.

A lot of pilots here try to make things better, alot just cry about it and don't do anything but eat at the trough. The worst thing I see now is how fractured we are and some groups are outright ugly and disrespectful to fellow pilots. When I see someone doing it on here I drop to their level so they can see how it can turn the other way.

Lifes full of up and downs, if you worry about all the little things all at once you will be miserable no matter what youdo or where you go.

Timing and seniority are what determines QOL at airlines. There certainly people that had it harder but I was hired near the end of the 2006 wave. Got bumped from my seat to the panel when age 65 and parking the DC10s happened while guys just a few months senior kept WB FO slots. It sux and I made a lot less $ than near peers on the seniority list. 5 years of NB flying wasn’t great. When things got better, it got better fast and QOL and upgrades improved. That being said, nobody can say for certain when that will happen this time. Guys hired in 2015 will have an entirely different career trajectory than you. They lucked out and had impeccable timing. It sucks to be a catfish. That being said, guys like plezdontfireme will only see the bad. He was probably hired in 2015 and has had an amazing run and still complains 😜…There are worse salt mines to work at but if you can’t wait for the turnaround here and think you’ll have better luck at a Major who is cold calling, go for it. You won’t know if either choice was correct until the end of your career. Good luck. These decisions are stressful.

“Unless you bought a house recently inflation doesn’t affect you”

-Our own negotiating committee

you most of all offer insane advice. talk about whining. you dump on people who come on here to voice opinions and yet you never shut up. big mouth.

it is amazing to me how many pilots side with management at this company. when management never sides with pilots.

My advice is to keep grinding here for a bit. We are in labor talks and nothing good will EVER come to us while we are in negotiations. The company pays companies like Ford and Harrison and McKinsey millions to bust our unity and morale. It’s by design. Maybe things will get worse here maybe they will get better, but in the past pilots at those other carriers have committed suicide during contract negotiations. It’s a nasty game they play.

“Even if you are not ready for the day, it can not always be night.”

unless Amazon decides to really squash us. Then we’re all ****ed.

the problem is, all these “little things” are plentiful and only serve to degrade our quality of life. and with every contract more and more little things are added to the language, things that we accept because deep down inside we are self loathing and selfish.

Do you have anything worthwhile to contribute about the state of FX or just want to keep claiming the legacies will falter somehow. What if they don’t? You don’t know the answer to that but the stagnation and problems at FX are very real right now. I wouldn’t have even considered this job if I had even half the insite I do now.[/QUOTE]

He does know the answer. That's why he's here. The Pax Carriers have faltered once a decade for nearly the entire history of commercial aviation. You're experiencing a very small adversity in the grand scheme of things, but if you're not happy then go find your happiness. This will be but a blip in your FedEx career. When things takeoff again you'll be happy that you stayed.

He does know the answer. That's why he's here. The Pax Carriers have faltered once a decade for nearly the entire history of commercial aviation. You're experiencing a very small adversity in the grand scheme of things, but if you're not happy then go find your happiness. This will be but a blip in your FedEx career. When things takeoff again you'll be happy that you stayed.[/QUOTE]






The senior IGMFY crowd almost seem to root for the junior ones to be furloughed one way or another. “Stay here I hope you get furloughed. Go to delta, hopefully you get furloughed.”

Such a weird generational (can’t say “boomer” or I’ll get suspended again) mind virus they have eating away at them.

[/QUOTE]The senior IGMFY crowd almost seem to root for the junior ones to be furloughed one way or another. “Stay here I hope you get furloughed. Go to delta, hopefully you get furloughed.”
I said nothing about "Furlough" and I'm not very senior. I've just been in this industry for 20+ years. I've seen good, I've seen bad, I've seen em all more than once and I'll see em again.

We may see a reduction of hours, but I don't see us furloughing. Don't project your thoughts into my message.

My virus is begging me to point out that, if we had voted yes on the TA, the OP would be about 28k higher on his '23 W2, would have watched 3-400 pilots retire off the list above him, and could STILL take one of those sweet pax gigs and kiss this place goodbye. We sure showed them....

I told you boys during the vote: Our choice was 1) watch Raj shrink the company, or 2) make more money while we watch Raj shrink the company.....

Seems like all you want to do is make a divided between the senior and junior. I could say the greedy junior guys now need to earn their dues and suck it up and work on their own contract after all the senior guys take the money and run. Or you can stop believing all the conspiracy BS and work together to get a contract we all deserve.

everyone needs to relax. I appreciate everyone’s advice. We need to band together and fight the only enemy we face together instead of fighting each other. They are doing an expert job at pitting us against each other. They are the real scumbags

2 for staying. I do think there will be another system bid after an appropriate TA 2.0 is ratified. Hang in there!

I share the same frustrations and questions as the OP. FedEx has its warts but I've also enjoyed some great benefits working here. I like my job here...I really do. I think the junior crowd is concerned about the new direction of the company. Management seems hell bent on squeezing every dollar out of this corporation. FedEx corp will continue to money...even in slow economic cycles like we are seeing today. I came here because of the stability of the corporation. I didn't factor in that Raj doesn't need purple pilots to make money. Where does the airline, and pilot careers, fall into the corp equation nobody knows and is what scares me. PSP is bull ****. It's words on a poster...it's no culture. Employees are treated like **** and our product sucks. It's a race to the bottom chasing the almighty dollar for the shareholder.

What does the future look like with Purple, orange, white flying? Is the seniority list going to shrink to UPS levels or will we capture more markets and eventually grow again? Is this a temporary problem or a long term systemic issue? The ship sure feels like it's taking on water and I want off while the lifeboats are still warm and dry.

Until you have a CJO(s) in hand, there is no use in stressing on this. Go interview and see what happens. You may not have a decision to make and that may be the best outcome for you.