Why is it diverse if senior pilots want it. Maybe it is diverse because junior pilots don't want it. So maybe we should cut off the bottom? There is going to be some triggering over this!

 

FXLAX, When I got hired we did not have the current A plan. I was hired prior to Nov 98 contract. I voted yes on tha contract. I have pushed to get it raised verbally the contracts since. At least we got the B fund bump.

I have pushed and been vocal for all our contracts to make improvements.

i want a contract that makes improvements for all. Some of those improvements might not affect some until later in their careers, some sooner.

 

3 is better than 2. I’d prefer 4 or 5 tiers. One is good too, but that’s a difficult math problem to solve. Congress has two groups and we see how that works. More would force future cooperation and less stratification for the next few cycles.

 

Absolutely not.

When it comes to retirement, and many other things, all of us need to be in one boat rowing one direction or we will be pitted against each other until the end of time.

 

You missed my sentence about one option. That would be preferred.

However, any company (not just FedEx and us pesky pilots) trying to extricate themselves from the over burdensome regulations placed on pension funding and at the same time make those employees close to whole is a major problem. Especially when those current employees are looking at a retirement horizon sometime between 1 month and 30 years out. The 29 year old sees 35 years of market gains and their potential much differently than the 64 year old sees his 30 years of past work. Similarly, the math required to make those pilots ‘whole’ is vastly different.

My point is that two plans, the haves and have nots, like the failed TA presented, creates instant hostility and infighting at the next round of negotiations. 3 options might push that fighting out to contract 2032. 5 options might, as John says in the last video and currently pax carriers have, ‘make retirement simply a function of payroll.’

Someone with better info on longevity and ages of pilots than I can define these better but my back of napkin spitball example is something like:

60+ (or current 25 year guys) keep current with a bump
50-60 get 80% of that bump and 15% market $$
40-50 get 60% and 20% market $
30-40 get 40% and 25
<30 get 30% market.

I don’t know exactly what they’re position is, I’m not advocating or trying to negotiate, I’m just offering a point of view that may allow the issues of work rules and scope to be the unifier and decider in the future negotiations instead of hard dollars which makes it easier for the company to buy votes with retirement adjustments.

There’s still the argument about years dedicated being worth $x vs working your self to death. The old A/B ratios we currently face, that’s another philosophical challenge. I don’t have all, or any, of the answers, but it’s not a one size fits all solution.

 

Ok, I don't know what you are reading, but in both the Delta and United contract there are sections that are literally labled "Offsets."

As you stated, the DC contribution is twice the disablity benifit. The disablity benefit is after you subtract the offsets.

There is a cap for United, it is in the chart that is published. For 2025, their maximum disability benefit is $14,913.23 a month, or just under $179,000 that year. So a 12+ year A350 captain doesn't make 50% of 1026 hours at their pay rate.


Ok, but what about all of the years until you reach age 59.5? Where do you think they came up with that age? As I am sure you know, the rate of return on the money you invested earlier is much more important than what happens at the very end.

 

Who said you did mention offsets? I mentioned them because your formula for their DC contribution on disability was wrong. As was stated, once you get into the offsets, the math starts getting complicated.

Fedex pilots do get pension credt while on disability. As long as you get a high 5 meeting the FAE limit, you could be on disablity for 20+ years and still get a full pension at retirement.

 

You are right. I was going off of bad information. Maybe Delta removed some of their offsets? I should've gone to source documents for the fine print. They do have a workers comp offset.

But United does not. Here is the source: "24-H-4 Offsets to Monthly Benefit
The benefit determined above shall be offset (reduced) by any compensation received from the Company; provided, however, there shall be no offset for vacation pay or Profit Sharing received from the Company." They eliminated all offsets (except for United employment). As for their cap, yes, the 1026 hours times their rate falls well below their topped out pilot. I should've done the math and not assumed the chart just did the math. By the way, I don't think United has any A350s...yet.

I mainly listed all of them to compare it to FedEx and show how far behind we are just in this item alone. Even with the corrections, we are still woefully behind. I'm sure someone will let me know of I got something else wrong again.

Delta: 50% / no cap / workers comp offset / DC 2X the benefit amount / min. payment floor.
United: 50%, cap $14,913.23 / United work offset / DC 2X the benefit amount.
American: 50% / no cap / no offsets / DC based on the pilot’s average monthly compensation.

FedEx: 60% (50% >24 mo.) / cap $17,500, then $14,583.33 >24 mo. / offsets / no DC.

As for the spillover cash, I'm just adding more context to your comment. UAL has a limit of $10k into their HRA until they establish their mbcbp. And all MBCBPs seem to have the ability to rollover funds at 59.5. I'm not disputing the importance of being able to control your investment at the beginning rather than at the end. Just that it's not as black and white as you make it seem.

 

On minor issues, sure. Chances you can dump $3 million into a 401k either tax free or tax defered is close to zero.

 

First, I am not intending to make it seem black and white, just the opposite. I am trying to point out that there is a lot more to it than the post I originally reponded to.

I don't have a copy of the AA contract, so I will assume that what you posted is correct. As far as being woefully behind, let's look at the United contract.

First, their LTD benefit. For the first two years, there is a difference of about $2500 a month between their max benefit and ours. In that first two years, a Fedex pilot will get $60,000 more in LTD benefit. After that, United gets a benefit of about $330 a month more. It will take about 15 years for that excess benefit to match the deficit of the first two years. So, after 17 years on LTD at the maximum benefit, a Fedex pilot and a United pilot will have received the same LTD payment.

Another item to look at is that Fedex pays 100% of the LTD plan while United pay 75% of their and the pilots pay the other 25%. Now, as far as DC contribuitions go, yes, Fedex doesn't make any of those for LTD. What they do have is longevity accumulation of 2% a year for the pension. So you could still max out the pension on LTD. How much of that would account for the DC contributions? Also, the Fedex offsets aren't at 100% like the United compensation offset. So I am not sure that we are woefully behind, at least United. It should also be noted that these comparisons are assuming that both pilots are earning the most they can. At United, if you are a 12 year 76-400 FO, since you didn't like the A350 comparison, your maximum benefit for 2025 would be about $13,500 per month while a Fedex FO could theoretically still make the $17,500 for the first two years and then the $14,600 after that. Again, we are talking about the top FO rate at United.

There is a lot to get into, so instead of people reading these comments as this is all there is to it, they should look at these as just a few of the items and read the differences themselves.