ICED
06-26-2025 | 11:52 AM
#21
On Reserve
Joined: Mar 2024
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Did I say we should accept a substandard contract? No. I said we will have to prioritize what's important. It's a problem that you think a 40,000 pension increase is minimal. Go price an annuity for how much that's worth, and maybe you'll maybe see why it's a factor.
06-26-2025 | 11:55 AM
#22
Proponent of Hysteria
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,089
Likes: 5
From: "Part of the problem." : JL
We’re already taking a 40% relative pay cut by delaying a raise to chase a pension increase few fully understand the cost of and no other legacy airline has or improved. The NMB controls the process and has told us we’re asking for too much. We will have to prioritize what's most important. But we're not getting it all.
06-26-2025 | 12:03 PM
#23
On Reserve
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
We’re already taking a 40% relative pay cut by delaying a raise to chase a pension increase few fully understand the cost of and no other legacy airline has or improved. The NMB controls the process and has told us we’re asking for too much. We will have to prioritize what's most important. But we're not getting it all.
06-26-2025 | 12:07 PM
#24
Doing One Pilot's Job
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,891
Likes: 130
Current UPS/IPA Flat Dollar Amount is $4650/YOS for Captains, capped at 30YOS...$139.5k/year.
I don't see any way we go from $4650/YOS up to $6600+/YOS...that'd be a 42% increase in defined benefit pension before addressing any other "contract pillar" area like increasing the 12% DC, cash-over cap, hourly rates, pay rigs, or scheduling.
I'd MUCH rather see an increase both the DB and DC than push that many chips in a single direction.
Good luck to us both...
I don't see any way we go from $4650/YOS up to $6600+/YOS...that'd be a 42% increase in defined benefit pension before addressing any other "contract pillar" area like increasing the 12% DC, cash-over cap, hourly rates, pay rigs, or scheduling.
I'd MUCH rather see an increase both the DB and DC than push that many chips in a single direction.
Good luck to us both...
06-26-2025 | 12:14 PM
#25
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 58
Likes: 4
To your point...the membership has control of the process. By refusing to succumb to the Stockholm syndrome and insisting on a ratifiable contract, if that means an impasse, then by law there are remedies for an impasse. It is not mandatory to concede.
06-26-2025 | 12:36 PM
#26
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 781
Likes: 14
$200k pension would still be less than 50% of the earnings of a top of scale widebody captain in retirement, but it would be a sufficient safety net when coupled with other investments, such as a 401k plan with cash over cap.
A pension buyout would be good if it makes everyone whole, and whole at a higher dollar value than the 1998 $130k pension. Those
close to retirement deserve an improved retirement plan and what difference does it make what form it’s in, as long as it’s better. We shouldn’t give up the pension for nothing in return. FUPM!
As upsetting as it is to be “iced”, or rather simply have negotiations canceled because of a biased and corrupt NMB, now is not the time for widespread union leadership changes. I am mad as h3ll at the lack of progress, as is the NMB, but I don’t see how asking for similar pay rates and work rules as our peers at United, Delta, American, and even Southwest, JetBlue, and Spirit is asking too much. I am happy with the path we’ve chosen, but I am unhappy with how bumpy the path has gotten. I know the destination at the end of the path is the right destination and don’t want to turn around and start over on a new path with a new destination. Stay the course! Hold the line!
A pension buyout would be good if it makes everyone whole, and whole at a higher dollar value than the 1998 $130k pension. Those
close to retirement deserve an improved retirement plan and what difference does it make what form it’s in, as long as it’s better. We shouldn’t give up the pension for nothing in return. FUPM!
As upsetting as it is to be “iced”, or rather simply have negotiations canceled because of a biased and corrupt NMB, now is not the time for widespread union leadership changes. I am mad as h3ll at the lack of progress, as is the NMB, but I don’t see how asking for similar pay rates and work rules as our peers at United, Delta, American, and even Southwest, JetBlue, and Spirit is asking too much. I am happy with the path we’ve chosen, but I am unhappy with how bumpy the path has gotten. I know the destination at the end of the path is the right destination and don’t want to turn around and start over on a new path with a new destination. Stay the course! Hold the line!
06-26-2025 | 01:19 PM
#28
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 703
Likes: 56
The NMB looks at the total value of a contract compared to other contracts. If they feel that we are being unreasonable in our asks, they will let us sit and think about it. There is no requirement for the NMB to release a group. That standard has been upheld in the courts. And even if they do release us some day, there is no guarantee that we will ever be allowed to exercise self help. In the end, congress can impose a contract settling any sections that hadn’t been previously agreed too.
06-26-2025 | 01:27 PM
#29
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 58
Likes: 4
And if the NMB or the company want to call our bluff and release us...make my day.
06-26-2025 | 01:39 PM
#30
On Reserve
Joined: Jul 2023
Posts: 58
Likes: 4
...and yes, Congress did intervene with the railroad workers impasse in 2022. But we are not 100,000 strong and a strike on our part would not have nearly the impact. It is highly unlikely that the herd of cats in Congress would come to a resolution about 5,000 Fedex pilots.
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