kwri10s

No this was back just prior to the last contract. We had a large bid and there were many MD11 training slots awarded to MEM. However, since the ANC guys did not require upgrade training to activate into MEM, there were just activated as needed and anyone that needed upgrade training to activate was just delayed and delayed. I slid a year as every month a new nugget moved south. The company was using all the MD11 training slots to train the new ANC FOs so they could flush the nuggets. No passover awarded, even though all the "new" MD11 FOs were way junior and awarded the 11 seniority slots on the same bid. Since it was different type of training, the union said "all is good". So no passover, and past practice of allowing differing training to differentiate for passover.

DLax85

Sorry, still confused

The ANC guys moving south --- that was voluntary or via an excess bid?

Those must have been MD11 guys coming to MEM so it's not their training that you were concerned about

I think you are talking about new hires off the street going to ANC as MD11 FOs...??

Was your MD11 slot to MEM or ANC??

If it wasn't to ANC, and that's where the new hires are going, then it's not the same plane/seat/DOMICILE

If all three were the same then Passover would be do

I think the current situation being described is different...and it's a new argument the company is making...guite disingenuously

AnyMouse

CBA 24.D.2.a says:

Passover Pay Due To Junior Pilot’s Early Activation
a. In case of a junior pilot’s activation to a higher paying position out of seniority order, every senior pilot who meets the following prerequisites shall be paid as if he had activated in that higher paying position (passover pay):

1.  
   1. the junior pilot and the senior pilot(s) hold an award for the same crew position; and
   2. the junior pilot’s award is from the same posting as the senior pilot’s award or from a subsequent posting; and
   3. the Company chooses to activate the junior pilot prior to the senior pilot(s) and the junior pilot’s activation delays the training and activation of the senior pilot(s).

Obviously the rub is over the very last phrase (isn't it always?). The Company holds that if you are doing different training (e.g. ITU vs Differences), then by definition your training hasn't been delayed. The presumptive ALPA position is that since 767 ITU is simply 757 ITU followed by differences training, the senior pilot has in fact been delayed. I actually think we might win this one!

memhubturn

Additionally, CBA 24.D.2.a.iii doesn't say anything about what specific "course" someone is in. All it says is if a junior pilot's training/activation delays my training/activation, passover pay is due.

The only reason new hires are going to the MEM 767 starting in Jan of 2016 is to fill requirements. Let's just say that we had no new hires because they were all going to Delta. Who would now fill those requirements? Those of us on the training letter. So, the only reason I have a 2017 training date/activation is because new hires are filling requirements in 2016. The fact that the new hires will complete 757 initial training and IOE, followed by the SAME 767 differences training that I will have to complete, just makes this more insane.

These new hires should attend their scheduled 757 training and be activated into the 757. The 767 differences portion of their training should be given to guys on the 767 training letter. If the company chooses to leave it as is, that is their right but passover pay should be paid.

FDXLAG

That was my point. New hires and current 75 pilots both need the same "course" 76, difference training, to be activated in the 76. New hires can continue flying 75s, no reason to schedule them for differences training before a "senior" pilot.

DLax85

...Bingo!!