Flexjet: One year in
11-25-2023 | 06:29 AM
#191
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 68
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Can you define what your level of acceptable misery is? How much sitting reserve can you tolerate? Do you live or plan to move to your regional base once assigned? How much actual flying are you expecting once you're done with training? It's hard because you don't know what you don't know at this point and trying to make a decision based on comments (good and bad) on a public forum makes it that much harder...lol! To make matters worse, it is such a fluent environment that what is happening today can change in an instant tomorrow or next month. At some point, you just have to roll the dice and go with it.
For me, Flex is head and shoulders above any regional, which is where I came from. The new Flexbid is a huge thorn that is poking SIC's and Phenom CA's pretty hard right now, but I'm hoping the project manager can get the issues fixed quickly....but IMHO, it still doesn't outweigh all of the other positives at Flex....yet! If you can make it work until upgrade into the Challenger or Praeter, bidding and scheduling becomes a non-issue.
Going to a regional, even if you can get on with one right now due to their hiring slowdown, is going to take a lot longer to get picked up by a major for a couple reasons. First, there is a current imbalance of CA's to FO's pretty much across every regional, which means reserve times have gone up and getting those valuable 121 hours needed for upgrade to CA takes that much longer. That really, really sucks if you are a commuter. Second, class dates for most are out into Spring of next year again. Third, some have resorted to lengthy training contracts (which is being challenged in court by the union). Fourth, due to those CA shortages, the major's are being selective with how many people they take from their own regionals at any one time because it hurts their operations if they have to cut back flying due to staffing (I've heard rumblings that AA is out to 5+ years again for their wholly-owned regionals). They'll poach all day from competitors regionals, but they are basically in a triangle formation shooting each other in that aspect...lol! If you're at OO, well, metering (unofficially) is the term still being thrown around because all three legacy's (and Alaska) are impacted by OO losing pilots, so there's that.
Now, if you want to get 500 hours of turbine time and then bail for Southwest or any of the other ULCC's, they'll take you from the regional's or here no problem. After that, the Legacy's will take you almost as soon as the ink is dry on your new type rating (at least that's what I've heard...). Over half my class from my previous regional are now at SWA, Atlas, or ATI. I'd choose a ULCC route if you can catch on with one before going to a regional right now, otherwise, come here, give it a try and go from there.
Best of luck with your decision!! It's a great time to be a pilot, but chaotic and scary at the same time...lol!
For me, Flex is head and shoulders above any regional, which is where I came from. The new Flexbid is a huge thorn that is poking SIC's and Phenom CA's pretty hard right now, but I'm hoping the project manager can get the issues fixed quickly....but IMHO, it still doesn't outweigh all of the other positives at Flex....yet! If you can make it work until upgrade into the Challenger or Praeter, bidding and scheduling becomes a non-issue.
Going to a regional, even if you can get on with one right now due to their hiring slowdown, is going to take a lot longer to get picked up by a major for a couple reasons. First, there is a current imbalance of CA's to FO's pretty much across every regional, which means reserve times have gone up and getting those valuable 121 hours needed for upgrade to CA takes that much longer. That really, really sucks if you are a commuter. Second, class dates for most are out into Spring of next year again. Third, some have resorted to lengthy training contracts (which is being challenged in court by the union). Fourth, due to those CA shortages, the major's are being selective with how many people they take from their own regionals at any one time because it hurts their operations if they have to cut back flying due to staffing (I've heard rumblings that AA is out to 5+ years again for their wholly-owned regionals). They'll poach all day from competitors regionals, but they are basically in a triangle formation shooting each other in that aspect...lol! If you're at OO, well, metering (unofficially) is the term still being thrown around because all three legacy's (and Alaska) are impacted by OO losing pilots, so there's that.
Now, if you want to get 500 hours of turbine time and then bail for Southwest or any of the other ULCC's, they'll take you from the regional's or here no problem. After that, the Legacy's will take you almost as soon as the ink is dry on your new type rating (at least that's what I've heard...). Over half my class from my previous regional are now at SWA, Atlas, or ATI. I'd choose a ULCC route if you can catch on with one before going to a regional right now, otherwise, come here, give it a try and go from there.
Best of luck with your decision!! It's a great time to be a pilot, but chaotic and scary at the same time...lol!
So at my regional, talking to the hiring team, training is not backed up because they stopped hiring FOs for about 6 months to help with the balance of CAs. They said I'll go right through training with no delays and, once I get to the line, I'll be flying a lot versus sitting on reserve a ton. How much of this is just a recruiting pitch? I have no idea. I do hope it's true. I'm sure there will be some reserve time. I also have no idea what sitting reserve is like, since I've only done military flying and this will be my first 121 job. I just want to be able to commute without losing all my off days, which are going to be minimal, like 12 days off per month. I don't know what time reserve schedules start or end, or much about how the commuter policy works.
HOWEVER, I don't have the ability to move in base due to kids in school, family situation, etc. I will be about a 1 hour flight or a 3+45 drive from my base.
I'm interviewing with Flex next month. If I don't get an offer, my decision will be an easy one. Otherwise, I'm very on the fence. I live right in a Flex dom, which is great, obviously.
11-25-2023 | 10:20 PM
#192
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 281
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Are these CAs with their resumes in getting picked up by the majors pretty quickly? I'm just wondering if a regional is a faster path to the majors? That's my end goal but I also don't want to be miserable for a year, you know. I feel like Flex has better QOL than a regional but with all these comments I'm not so sure
11-25-2023 | 10:31 PM
#193
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 281
Likes: 9
Keep in mind, ALL of the negatives of Flex revolve around the PBS, unlike other "Major" 135/91k operators where the pilots fight amongst themselves, that is not Flex, the pilot group is good and Ive seen a tremendous amount of resect for each other. If you come here and just opt for the 8/6 vs. the PBS, it will be OK. I came here for a little more flexibility but I dont know any other operation that has any sort of PBS. If Flex can refine the PBS to a TRUE PBS, it would be a game changer. When you say "A lot of these comments", they are really only about the PBS so more like 1 negative. Read the other message boards and see how many more negatives they have.
Last edited by followingdreams; 11-25-2023 at 10:33 PM. Reason: forgot to add a point
11-26-2023 | 03:36 AM
#194
On Reserve
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
Are these CAs with their resumes in getting picked up by the majors pretty quickly? I'm just wondering if a regional is a faster path to the majors? That's my end goal but I also don't want to be miserable for a year, you know. I feel like Flex has better QOL than a regional but with all these comments I'm not so sure
11-26-2023 | 05:08 AM
#195
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 68
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I would be going to Piedmont, aiming for Delta or United. The FO imbalance is fixed and I should be flying a lot. No delays in training either, I've confirmed that with scheduling. Is there just more dead time with Flex than a regional? Like sitting in between legs?
11-26-2023 | 10:46 AM
#196
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 168
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My response to the poster who said go to a regional vs Flex. Because they say - if airlines start slowing hiring and the hiring requirements go back to what they used to be - 4 yr degree several thousand hours 121 PIC etc.
It’s certainly possible. However just as possible is an industry black swan event. Airlines typically hire right up to till when they furlough. You could see massive furloughs. Think UAL like 3000-5000 pilots or more furloughed. Think lost decade 2001-2010 massive stagnation and your stuck where you are for a very long time.
Me personally - I’d much prefer to be stuck a good company (not great) Flex Jet with good pay and benefits (not great). Vs a bottom feeder regional like Piedmont in a NY second.
11-26-2023 | 11:21 AM
#197
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 68
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My two cents as a senior UAL CA who provides career counseling and mentoring to pilots.
My response to the poster who said go to a regional vs Flex. Because they say - if airlines start slowing hiring and the hiring requirements go back to what they used to be - 4 yr degree several thousand hours 121 PIC etc.
It’s certainly possible. However just as possible is an industry black swan event. Airlines typically hire right up to till when they furlough. You could see massive furloughs. Think UAL like 3000-5000 pilots or more furloughed. Think lost decade 2001-2010 massive stagnation and your stuck where you are for a very long time.
Me personally - I’d much prefer to be stuck a good company (not great) Flex Jet with good pay and benefits (not great). Vs a bottom feeder regional like Piedmont in a NY second.
My response to the poster who said go to a regional vs Flex. Because they say - if airlines start slowing hiring and the hiring requirements go back to what they used to be - 4 yr degree several thousand hours 121 PIC etc.
It’s certainly possible. However just as possible is an industry black swan event. Airlines typically hire right up to till when they furlough. You could see massive furloughs. Think UAL like 3000-5000 pilots or more furloughed. Think lost decade 2001-2010 massive stagnation and your stuck where you are for a very long time.
Me personally - I’d much prefer to be stuck a good company (not great) Flex Jet with good pay and benefits (not great). Vs a bottom feeder regional like Piedmont in a NY second.
11-26-2023 | 12:56 PM
#198
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 168
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Any combination thereof in addition to global events and additionally the possibly several hull losses. The fact that industry is hiring en masse the lowest qualified pilots in massive numbers ever on top of extreme growth has set up the industry in humble opinion as an accident waiting to happen.
11-26-2023 | 01:42 PM
#199
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 4,208
Likes: 7
Any combination thereof in addition to global events and additionally the possibly several hull losses. The fact that industry is hiring en masse the lowest qualified pilots in massive numbers ever on top of extreme growth has set up the industry in humble opinion as an accident waiting to happen.
11-26-2023 | 03:03 PM
#200
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 168
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Has nothing to do with the 1500 hour rule. Prior to the pandemic the legacy airlines all had 17,000+ very qualified applicants on file today it’s less than 2000 and marginally qualified at best.
Prior to the pandemic to get a legacy job you needed 5,000 to 7000 hours & several thousand hours of turbine 121 PIC with some form of leadership experienced to standout and even be even considered.
Today legacies are hiring 2000 hour pilots with no turbine PIC. Used to take 7 to 20 years to make CA now you can hold it with less than a year.
Experience really does matter.
Prior to the pandemic to get a legacy job you needed 5,000 to 7000 hours & several thousand hours of turbine 121 PIC with some form of leadership experienced to standout and even be even considered.
Today legacies are hiring 2000 hour pilots with no turbine PIC. Used to take 7 to 20 years to make CA now you can hold it with less than a year.
Experience really does matter.
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