November Seven

And, that underlies my dilemma. How is it possible for the student to wrap their head around the totality of everything they are responsible for learning, retaining and executing - when their learning style absolutely requires drilling down to a level of minute detail on every single subject they study - which as you say, causes the CFI to truncate the process because they have a personal hang-up with a highly detail oriented student?

Which gets back to my original question about the CFI's actual Teaching capacity. The absolute best Teachers in the world thrive on highly detailed questions from students, because they use them as springboards to connect dots in the students mind.

Looking at the equation from the opposite end, one could say that given the number of GA incidents by otherwise licensed pilots that something is wrong with either the System on the back-end or the Training on the front-end. Thus, the reason I traverse through the weeds to find the truth of the matter before I begin my training.

Hopefully, I'm able to weed out training problems in the majority that causes a pilot much later in his flying career, run an AP Test flying through IMC while his aircraft is basically turning nose down, exceeding Vo while rotating through 75 degrees of bank, to the point where he's now completely confused about what to do next because he's spatially disoriented. As just one of countless problems with either the System or the Training.


That's what I wanted to hear. I don't want to end up upside down in IMC (basically inverted for all practical sake), no idea where my horizon is located, yanking back on the yoke as the airspeed indicator rips through 400 kts. Unless, of course, I'm flying an F-22 in which case - that might actually be fun. In a Phenom 300.... not so much.

So, yes. Sign me up for the Intuitive CFI with a Strategy & Heart for Teaching. The Art of Teaching and imparting correct knowledge well seated in the students mind for life, ain't always easy.

I don't fear screwing up in the cockpit. After I'm well trained, I should be able to catch my errors and solve in-flight problems not of own making in most all cases. My biggest fear is being taught by someone who does not truly belong in the Teaching Business and therefore, I get partial information, or information that's so cloudy and nebulous that it requires another CFI to come in and clean up the mess left behind by the first.

Trust, is the operative word here.

TiredSoul

These statements are concerning to me.
You’ve already been told you’re too focused on the details.
I’m starting to think you’re taking us for a ride and either a Flightsimmer or something else is wrong.
If you would be this bombastic and over-the-top in my office I’d politely tell you we’re not interested in training you and show you the door.
There’s something strange going on.
Doesn’t matter. It’s the interwebz and you can be whatever you want.
But I’m calling foul on this one.

PRS Guitars

OP,

Seriously, you need to relax. Just go fly, start working on your PPC and see where that takes you. It’s good to have a plan, but you’re going over the top, and likely step 1 of your plan won’t go as planned, so keep that in mind. You’re not going to learn a thing, if you’re focused on the last step.

I had the ultimate goal of being a Fighter Pilot and then Airline pilot. I started on the civilian track, got all of my ratings, CFI’d for years, joined the Air Force did well in training, flew F16’s, T38’s, got out and got my Airline job. All along the way, my philosophy was to do the very best at my current job. It’s like losing weight or paying off all of your debt (a la Dave Ramsey), have the end goal, but it’s a daily battle.

I’m assuming you’re well off ($30+ mil net worth) since you’re considering buying a VLJ. Why not take a hiatus and go to FlightSafety Academy? I trained there in the early 90’s, it was not quite as good as military training, but pretty dang close it terms of structure.

November Seven

When someone tells me not to worry too much about the details.... I get very concerned as to why. That's exactly where the Devil likes to hide out. In the details. Down in the weeds.

I only told half the story. I said I'm getting prepared for a VLJ. What I did not say was that I'm also getting prepared for either an H135 or an H145 as well. Both will sleep at night in the same hanger. I've got a lot of work to do and a whole lot to learn. Both are high performance aircraft. Fixed wing and rotor. I'm finally able to fulfill some dreams and make them a daily reality. If that's too over the top for you, I understand. I get it.

Let's just conclude that you have your opinion. I've already explained what I'm trying to accomplish, what my starting point will be and why the details matter to me from the outset.

In the meantime, beyond the naysayers, I've got to get myself prepared (efficiently and optimally) for the next 20-25 years of flying aircraft that most private pilots won't be fortunate enough to have the opportunity to fly. That's just the bottom line. I have to do that without the heavy background as a Pilot starting out.

I don't merely have ratings to worry about here. I also have capital outlay to be concerned with as well. That changes how you think about what you are doing and how you go about doing it. I can't just wander into this without a clear plan and I won't have a "flight department" managing things for me.

Adequate Hanger Facilities
Maintenance Schedules
Unscheduled Repairs
Aircraft Security
Asset Management
Accounts Receivable
Legal Entity Structuring

Those are things I have to content with in addition to Flight Planning and Flying. I had to do the homework on those things first, just to figure out whether or not being an 'Owner' is worth the hassle (and it is something of a hassle in some areas).

You cannot do this correctly without being forward thinking and that means figuring out what the details look like at every step. For me, owning is going to be exactly like running a Business and you don't do that without getting deep into the details, first.

Thanks for your opinion! That's what I came for.

November Seven

Let's face it. A lot of people wander not into aviation, but into a "Job" in aviation. They know where they want to be in aviation, but they cannot control their own destiny, as often times that is determined by hiring quotas, the needs of the government at the time and economic conditions completely out of their control.

Can I just go out and start flying? Yes. Is that focused enough for what I'm trying to accomplish? Probably, not.

I'm in control of the largest variable involved in one's aviation career and that's the type and kind of aircraft they fly. Often times, people have to fly what's available at the time and according to the schedule that's available at the time. I get to create all of that. That means planning and forward thinking.

There is significant capital outlay involved here and that adds a different dimension as well. There's the Business Operations dimension of ownership at this level as well. There is also the Asset Management dimension. There's a lot going on. I wish I had the freedom to be so 'loose' in approaching all this. I don't and for some fairly obvious reasons.

I have trips planned to manufacturers for the purpose of placing orders. Just going out to get a Pilots license so I can see where that takes me, is probably not going to work.

I need a roadmap. I need a flight plan for the flight plan.

Who the hell knows. Maybe there are others out there like me looking for the same roadmap. Maybe I'll write a book about it when I'm done - to help others build that path for themselves.

This is not about mere ratings. There is so much more involved here. I wish I could explain it better. There are big pieces that need to be pulled together and they have to fit. Making sure the Training is solid, is just one piece of the whole.

I just don't want to screw-up one of the big pieces of that whole, because I failed to focus on the details when I should have. A little anxiety? Hell, yeah. Roughly $17 mln after the fact spent, sure - I want some cushion in the knowledge that I'm doing things the right way. Who the heck wouldn't!


Flight Safety

Yes. I've investigated them for a while now. There is nothing I don't like about them - but that's just from the outside looking in. I've been down to Florida, looked at the primary facility, took the tour and was impressed at ever step. So, why am I not doing Flight Safety? Honestly, I did the same exact thing with ATP in Sacremento, California.

After having toured both, I walk away feeling good but wondered whether or not I could better tailor things for my needs through a Part 61 path that included Flight Instruction specifically from someone having an extensive Jet background - going through all phases with that Instructor: Private/Instrument/Commercial/Multi-Engine. Maintaining a structured approach the entire time.

So, that's where I am right now - trying to figure that out. Outside of a Part 61 path, Flight Safety is clearly at the top of the list, followed by ATP. ATP is local to me, which makes the logistics easier. And, yes - with Flight Safety, I would need to relocate for a while. But, I'm willing to that, too. My Wife, has already given me the go-ahead for a temporary move down to Florida.

Its go time. I just don't want to screw-up something big. That's all. I don't mind small errors - I'm human. However, I like to avoid huge errors whenever possible - instead of just walking right into them with my head down.

My next (and final) step is to go out and try to meet-up with other VLJ owners, if possible. I know two of them already and one of them has a YouTube channel where they make regular posts. The other I met while researching available hanger space at a local airport (a real pain in the butt out where I live, by the way). He owns/flies a Phenom 100 locally. Hopefully, through both of them I'll meet more owners willing to share advice. I'm trying to cover as many bases as possible before making final decision on a Training path.

Hey, thanks for your story. I appreciate it and I appreciate your service. I'm pretty sure you had a blast in the Talon and especially the Falcon, no doubt.

rickair7777

A detailed, in-depth, approach to learning the material would be welcomed by any CFI worth his salt. I was referring over-analyzing the instructional process, or the instructor-student relationship during training.

The training system is a bit antiquated, although the FAA's recent emphasis on flight management and judgement, in addition to just technical skills, is a step in the right direction.

Fundamentally, the "problem" is the regulatory framework is far more permissive than most modern Americans are accustomed to. It provides great flexibility for highly skilled and experienced pilots to do things which would be dangerous for many other pilots. For safety it relies very much on individual responsibility, not so much the built-in systemic protections we are accustomed to in most other aspects of life.

It can run the full spectrum, your choice. Motorcycle analogy again.... anything from a 19 year-old with a brand-new ducati tearing up a two-lane mountain road on Friday night, to an MD and his wife on a big cruiser riding the coast highway at 45 mph on Sunday morning.

Use generous personal minimums while building experience and you'll be fine.


You'll be fine. Just make sure you can hand-fly your plane in IMC (and deal with unusual attitudes). Aerobatic training would be a great idea, enhances your SA and comfort in any attitude. But unusual attitude training teaches you how to get out of unusual attitudes without wrecking the plane (aerobatic planes are much stronger than normal aircraft).

TiredSoul

You could consider doing your Private/Instrument and add the type rating and always fly with a professional pilot to keep an eye on things.
Lots of owner pilots fly this way.
Insurance company will be happier also.
And you seriously need to stop over analyzing the minutiae.
You’re getting nowhere with this.


I’m just going to leave this here:
https://www.flyingmag.com/ntsb-posts-preliminary-report-on-cleveland-cj-crash

November Seven

Got it. Let me just give you an idea of where all this comes from and what drives my questions. Just so you understand why I think the way I do:

Title: The Complete Guide To Flight Instruction
Author: Gregory M. Penglis
Publisher: Rainbows Books, Inc.
Date: 1994
ISBN: 1-56825-012-6

Page 12: Excerpt


I've read a few other books on "Flight Training." This was the most down to earth read I've ever had as Gregory, cuts through the clutter to get straight to the crux of the relationship between Student/Instructor and what makes that relationship as optimal as it can be for the benefit of the Student and to the professional satisfaction of the Instructor.

It has become my Flight Instruction Guidance Bible. It is a dogeared, crusty, wrinkled old paperback with pages almost falling out. But, when it became time to finally put my training program together, I ran back to it like a child running back into the arms of his father.

This is where I get my questions from. This is the source of my analysis. I've never read a book on flight instruction that was written as if it was custom tailored for me. It speaks to every aspect that's important to me, where others failed to do so. It brings up important issues that other books failed to bring up. It answers important and necessary questions that other books don't even bother to ask.

This is my Bible. And, I seek an Instructor who has been baptized according to its doctrine. Ok, that last part was just a joke - but you get my point. It is a really good book on what I should be looking for in Flight Instruction and I'm trying to follow its guidelines - that's all.

One of the things Gregory, talks about is precisely what you touch upon. The student should always be clear and free to grill the Instructor on things the student is having difficulty with, stop the instruction at any time the student feels the need to do so in order to get clarity, and all without the instructor throwing a tissy fit because the student had the audacity to take control of his/her Education. Gregory, feels that good Instructors should be bigger than that and expect that good students will have in-depth questions throughout the training process.

Yes, I've looked him up (he was local to where I now live). He was my first choice for Instructor. He's no longer giving instruction to my great chagrin - retired.


I really do appreciate the advice and your understanding of the underlying premise here. Thank you.

tm602

Have you ever actually sat in a Phenom 300? Try it out....you'll see the LAST thing any of us want is more range. Especially in the Captain seat if that stupid water barrier is installed.

November Seven

Thus far:

Phenom 100 and 300 (sat)
CJ3 (sat)
CJ4 (sat w/G3000 demo)
Premier 1 (sat)
Eclipse 500 (sat)
SJ30/SyberJet (never sat)

I thought the Eclipse was interesting, but its size and performance aren't quite at the level of the others. Ironically, the SyberJet (SJ30) is probably the blacksheep of the entire VLJ community right now including being the absolute best performer hands down.

The Sino Swearingen SJ-30. This is where the dream began for me in earnest. I've always dreamed of owning an "airplane" someday since I was a kid. But, it was not until I came across the old SJ-30, that the dream became a Jet Dream (pun definitely intended). The problem with the SJ-30 for me was its stumbling development history. Still, there's nothing with the same performance at cruise, cabin pressurization and long range of the SJ-30/SyberJet, on the market today. The SJ-30 is the little jet that lit the fire for me as an adult many years ago.



Now, that's very interesting indeed. One of the most attractive things about the SJ-30 for me was just that, its range, cabin pressurization and cruise speed. For a VLJ it has range approximating medium jets (even more in some cases). At 2,500nm max range, it brought Hilo (PHTO) into question from California. It also brought into focus the concept of a Wet Footprint. And, it launched me into studying Flight Over Water in general (an interesting topic all by itself).

I was learning about the maximum distance an aircraft could fly over water with just one engine after passing a suitable alternate (PNR), as well as how to calculate the ETP on just one engine. As you might imagine, for a non-pilot it got rather confusing - especially when trying to figure out ETOPS calculations.

I figured out that the SJ-30 would in theory have 412nm remaining as it reached the edge of Hilo from KSFO for example (of course, the descent phase would begin before that) which is less than 60 minutes flight time in the cruise config. Considering NBAA IFR reserves, it would stretch the SJ-30's legs further than comfortable for me. Though, on paper alone the number say it would work. However, those numbers don't take into consideration winds aloft which would be a nearly constant headwind for that flight. I would not want to fly that close to reserves given a single engine failure scenario because there is no PNR or ETP between California KSFO or KOAK. Or, said another way the PNR would be the original departure airport, making the ETP, mathematically speaking, infinite for all practical purposes.

Still, the very fact that you can talk about ETP, ETOPS and NBAA IFR reserves from California to Hilo in a VLJ of any kind, is remarkable to say the least and the SJ-30 is the only VLJ on the market where such a discussion is even remotely sane or approachable. I still love this little jet and always will. It is my sincerest hope that someday, SyberJet is able to put the capital behind it sufficient to scale it up to meet the cabin size challenge brought by the others (CJ4, Phenom 300 and PC-24). Everyone's personal opinion about the old Sino Swearingen program aside. If you don't have long range needs and larger cabin size requirements, there is probably no more fun and no better performing VLJ anywhere.

Sea level cabin pressure at FL410 and 430+kts without a tailwind makes long trips short. And, 480+kts in high speed cruise with still more than 2,100nm range. There's no VLJ anywhere on the market even today that comes close and this design is well more than 20 years old. Amazing little airplane. I think the fact that is a "little airplane" has also been part of its problem - its cabin is considerably restrictive and probably even smaller than the much slower and much newer in design, HondaJet.

The HondaJet never made my final cut because its cabin size and range relative to the competition was measurably weaker. At the same time, it was never meant to compete head-to-head with the Phenom 300 or CJ4. However, I really like the HondaJet concept and was very impressed by Honda's methodical approach and their commitment to making it a reality. I think Honda, as a company should be applauded for what they've accomplished with that program. Where others in aviation failed to deliver, Honda having no business aviation background or history actually made it happen - and they did it ahead of schedule. Of course, they were flush with cash when they began the program which never hurts a new airplane design.