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Old 03-02-2008, 04:21 AM   #81  
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Originally Posted by boilerpilot View Post
I've given you plenty of reasons, along with the rest of the people here. I still have yet to see you counter my point that instead of paying 30k to get a job at GIA with 250 hours you could go to any number of other regionals that will take you with 250 hours and upgrade you in the same amount of time.
Lets see here, I'll try and be one more to back you up. Granted these are application minimums and not competitive but...

Great Lakes: Comm ME, Upgrade currently 3 months faster than Gulfstream, sure they have a training contract and you don't get paid during training, and the wages are lower but you'll still have more money in your pocket when all is said and done

Mountain Air Cargo: No posted minimums, just fill out the application. Sure you may fly a caravan for a little while but they have big turboprops and you will make more money then at Gulfstream.

AirNet: Comm SE/ME, Pay is terrible for the props but you're building time, didn't have to pay for it, and can get into a lear jet. Oh, you're still not thousands of dollars in debt.

There are three options where you could get a job right out of training, not be a CFI, and quickly build the required flight time to move on to a bigger regional. All without paying Gulfstream.
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Old 03-02-2008, 09:26 AM   #82  
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What these naive wannabes don't understand is that the majority of pilots do not like pft and they could be limiting themselves with Gulfstream on their resumes.
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Old 03-02-2008, 10:02 AM   #83  
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Originally Posted by atpwannabe View Post
R u monitoring win I make a post?

Naw...I just bs-ing you . I know that you aren't.




atp
Actually, I am. I think you will regret going to GIA. It could torpedo your career. Never know who's going to be on that hiring board.
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Old 03-02-2008, 07:13 PM   #84  
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Any HR department that allows their people to simply throw away resumes is not a well organized HR dpt, and they are doing themselves a disservice. Did you really mean to say that or use it to make a point?

Partially tongue-in-cheek, but also to make a point. There has been a recurrent problem with GIA lateral transfers. Out of all of the transfers we get, GIA tend to have the greatest trouble with training.

I don't see the frequency of these issues with any other candidate source....
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Old 03-03-2008, 05:24 AM   #85  
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Originally Posted by Clue32 View Post
Lets see here, I'll try and be one more to back you up. Granted these are application minimums and not competitive but...

Great Lakes: Comm ME, Upgrade currently 3 months faster than Gulfstream, sure they have a training contract and you don't get paid during training, and the wages are lower but you'll still have more money in your pocket when all is said and done

Mountain Air Cargo: No posted minimums, just fill out the application. Sure you may fly a caravan for a little while but they have big turboprops and you will make more money then at Gulfstream.

AirNet: Comm SE/ME, Pay is terrible for the props but you're building time, didn't have to pay for it, and can get into a lear jet. Oh, you're still not thousands of dollars in debt.

There are three options where you could get a job right out of training, not be a CFI, and quickly build the required flight time to move on to a bigger regional. All without paying Gulfstream.
I hope jobs like these are still around when I make the mins. I would rather do that then CFI. Thanks for the info.
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Old 03-03-2008, 05:30 AM   #86  
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Apples to Oranges are what you are showing me so far. Nobody does Gulfstream style PFJ besides Gulfstream. It's unique.

The other stuff you mention isn't a PFJ player. RJ programs and hiring agreements are different than paying to act as a required crewmember at a 121 airline. Does that make sense?

But, yeah, I think entering the biz via Gulfstream Academy is not honorable.

"By the way, if Delta had a 737 f/o program and if I was paying 50K to get 737 flight time I would"

Well, I often pose that question to people who think Gulfstream Academy is a good choice and I often hear the answer you give about just buying a job at a major if you could. It's that sort of attitude that guarantees that PFJ will always be around, for a select few, and Gulfstream F/O's will continue to be a revenue source for their airline. It's also certain that people like you are managements wet dream and will help to lower the career expectations for pilots entering the industry for years to come.

I don't know how to say this nicely, so I'll just leave you with this. You have a lot to learn about the biz. Hopefully you'll figure it out before you make any big mistakes.
I'll never attend Gulfstream. Like I said the cheapest route is the best route for me. I cannot afford those schools, nor will I want to. Someday when I'm sitting in the left seat, and my f/o is from Gulfstream, I will not judge him/her unless their ate up.
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Old 03-03-2008, 07:24 AM   #87  
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Originally Posted by Clue32 View Post
Lets see here, I'll try and be one more to back you up. Granted these are application minimums and not competitive but...

Great Lakes: Comm ME, Upgrade currently 3 months faster than Gulfstream, sure they have a training contract and you don't get paid during training, and the wages are lower but you'll still have more money in your pocket when all is said and done

Mountain Air Cargo: No posted minimums, just fill out the application. Sure you may fly a caravan for a little while but they have big turboprops and you will make more money then at Gulfstream.

AirNet: Comm SE/ME, Pay is terrible for the props but you're building time, didn't have to pay for it, and can get into a lear jet. Oh, you're still not thousands of dollars in debt.

There are three options where you could get a job right out of training, not be a CFI, and quickly build the required flight time to move on to a bigger regional. All without paying Gulfstream.
I just go an email from MAC:

SIC - 1000TT, 500PIC; 100ME; CPL w/ME & Instru ratings.

Tell me...what is the most expeditious way to accumulate 500PIC? Is it CFI'ing? If so, then approx. how long would that take? I know that it varies from school to school, so from whichever facility you built hours through CFI'ing, then let me know.

Btw, anyone familiar with PIC time building work (other than CFI'ing) in the SE Florida area?

Spoke to MAC HR individual this morning. She says that most are turned down b/c they don't meet mins. I asked if there was a pool and she said no. Also, was informed that Maiden is not the only base. I thought that it was . Goes to show how much I knew!!!

If I went this route it'd definitely be on the ATR-42 or -72, not the C-208.


atp

Last edited by atpwannabe; 03-03-2008 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 03-03-2008, 11:33 AM   #88  
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I'll never attend Gulfstream. Like I said the cheapest route is the best route for me. I cannot afford those schools, nor will I want to. Someday when I'm sitting in the left seat, and my f/o is from Gulfstream, I will not judge him/her unless their ate up.
Yeah...you're military...Army I presume!!!


atp

Last edited by atpwannabe; 03-03-2008 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 03-03-2008, 04:11 PM   #89  
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Here is an abstract of an old suit filed by the Teamsters that shows what the IBT thinks of pilots who are paying:

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2000/27n008.html

Quote:
IBT filed challenges and objections to the list of eligible voters. The Organization challenged the eligibility of several individuals, including twenty-two "Pay-For-Time Pilots." The IBT argued that the Pay-For-Time Pilots were ineligible because they were "temporary," paid the Carrier for flight hours, and did not share working conditions with the employees in the craft or class. According to the Organization, these individuals were not on the seniority list and could not bid for routes.
End Quote

The NMB found in favor of the IBT.
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Old 03-03-2008, 06:45 PM   #90  
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Here is an abstract of an old suit filed by the Teamsters that shows what the IBT thinks of pilots who are paying:

http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2000/27n008.html

Quote:
IBT filed challenges and objections to the list of eligible voters. The Organization challenged the eligibility of several individuals, including twenty-two "Pay-For-Time Pilots." The IBT argued that the Pay-For-Time Pilots were ineligible because they were "temporary," paid the Carrier for flight hours, and did not share working conditions with the employees in the craft or class. According to the Organization, these individuals were not on the seniority list and could not bid for routes.
End Quote

The NMB found in favor of the IBT.
Good article. When I go to school, I'm expecting to be a student only. I'm expecting to fly with an instructor 1-2 times a day. I won't go to a school where I'm bidding for slots to fly routes or days off. Then that would be paying for a job. GSA has a uniques training system going on their. I can't see anyone doing that. Oh well won't be me.
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