E-mail I received from Gulfstream
#81
I've given you plenty of reasons, along with the rest of the people here. I still have yet to see you counter my point that instead of paying 30k to get a job at GIA with 250 hours you could go to any number of other regionals that will take you with 250 hours and upgrade you in the same amount of time.
Great Lakes: Comm ME, Upgrade currently 3 months faster than Gulfstream, sure they have a training contract and you don't get paid during training, and the wages are lower but you'll still have more money in your pocket when all is said and done
Mountain Air Cargo: No posted minimums, just fill out the application. Sure you may fly a caravan for a little while but they have big turboprops and you will make more money then at Gulfstream.
AirNet: Comm SE/ME, Pay is terrible for the props but you're building time, didn't have to pay for it, and can get into a lear jet. Oh, you're still not thousands of dollars in debt.
There are three options where you could get a job right out of training, not be a CFI, and quickly build the required flight time to move on to a bigger regional. All without paying Gulfstream.
#83
#84
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 50
Partially tongue-in-cheek, but also to make a point. There has been a recurrent problem with GIA lateral transfers. Out of all of the transfers we get, GIA tend to have the greatest trouble with training.
I don't see the frequency of these issues with any other candidate source....
#85
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 69
Lets see here, I'll try and be one more to back you up. Granted these are application minimums and not competitive but...
Great Lakes: Comm ME, Upgrade currently 3 months faster than Gulfstream, sure they have a training contract and you don't get paid during training, and the wages are lower but you'll still have more money in your pocket when all is said and done
Mountain Air Cargo: No posted minimums, just fill out the application. Sure you may fly a caravan for a little while but they have big turboprops and you will make more money then at Gulfstream.
AirNet: Comm SE/ME, Pay is terrible for the props but you're building time, didn't have to pay for it, and can get into a lear jet. Oh, you're still not thousands of dollars in debt.
There are three options where you could get a job right out of training, not be a CFI, and quickly build the required flight time to move on to a bigger regional. All without paying Gulfstream.
Great Lakes: Comm ME, Upgrade currently 3 months faster than Gulfstream, sure they have a training contract and you don't get paid during training, and the wages are lower but you'll still have more money in your pocket when all is said and done
Mountain Air Cargo: No posted minimums, just fill out the application. Sure you may fly a caravan for a little while but they have big turboprops and you will make more money then at Gulfstream.
AirNet: Comm SE/ME, Pay is terrible for the props but you're building time, didn't have to pay for it, and can get into a lear jet. Oh, you're still not thousands of dollars in debt.
There are three options where you could get a job right out of training, not be a CFI, and quickly build the required flight time to move on to a bigger regional. All without paying Gulfstream.
#86
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 69
Apples to Oranges are what you are showing me so far. Nobody does Gulfstream style PFJ besides Gulfstream. It's unique.
The other stuff you mention isn't a PFJ player. RJ programs and hiring agreements are different than paying to act as a required crewmember at a 121 airline. Does that make sense?
But, yeah, I think entering the biz via Gulfstream Academy is not honorable.
"By the way, if Delta had a 737 f/o program and if I was paying 50K to get 737 flight time I would"
Well, I often pose that question to people who think Gulfstream Academy is a good choice and I often hear the answer you give about just buying a job at a major if you could. It's that sort of attitude that guarantees that PFJ will always be around, for a select few, and Gulfstream F/O's will continue to be a revenue source for their airline. It's also certain that people like you are managements wet dream and will help to lower the career expectations for pilots entering the industry for years to come.
I don't know how to say this nicely, so I'll just leave you with this. You have a lot to learn about the biz. Hopefully you'll figure it out before you make any big mistakes.
The other stuff you mention isn't a PFJ player. RJ programs and hiring agreements are different than paying to act as a required crewmember at a 121 airline. Does that make sense?
But, yeah, I think entering the biz via Gulfstream Academy is not honorable.
"By the way, if Delta had a 737 f/o program and if I was paying 50K to get 737 flight time I would"
Well, I often pose that question to people who think Gulfstream Academy is a good choice and I often hear the answer you give about just buying a job at a major if you could. It's that sort of attitude that guarantees that PFJ will always be around, for a select few, and Gulfstream F/O's will continue to be a revenue source for their airline. It's also certain that people like you are managements wet dream and will help to lower the career expectations for pilots entering the industry for years to come.
I don't know how to say this nicely, so I'll just leave you with this. You have a lot to learn about the biz. Hopefully you'll figure it out before you make any big mistakes.
#87
Lets see here, I'll try and be one more to back you up. Granted these are application minimums and not competitive but...
Great Lakes: Comm ME, Upgrade currently 3 months faster than Gulfstream, sure they have a training contract and you don't get paid during training, and the wages are lower but you'll still have more money in your pocket when all is said and done
Mountain Air Cargo: No posted minimums, just fill out the application. Sure you may fly a caravan for a little while but they have big turboprops and you will make more money then at Gulfstream.
AirNet: Comm SE/ME, Pay is terrible for the props but you're building time, didn't have to pay for it, and can get into a lear jet. Oh, you're still not thousands of dollars in debt.
There are three options where you could get a job right out of training, not be a CFI, and quickly build the required flight time to move on to a bigger regional. All without paying Gulfstream.
Great Lakes: Comm ME, Upgrade currently 3 months faster than Gulfstream, sure they have a training contract and you don't get paid during training, and the wages are lower but you'll still have more money in your pocket when all is said and done
Mountain Air Cargo: No posted minimums, just fill out the application. Sure you may fly a caravan for a little while but they have big turboprops and you will make more money then at Gulfstream.
AirNet: Comm SE/ME, Pay is terrible for the props but you're building time, didn't have to pay for it, and can get into a lear jet. Oh, you're still not thousands of dollars in debt.
There are three options where you could get a job right out of training, not be a CFI, and quickly build the required flight time to move on to a bigger regional. All without paying Gulfstream.
SIC - 1000TT, 500PIC; 100ME; CPL w/ME & Instru ratings.
Tell me...what is the most expeditious way to accumulate 500PIC? Is it CFI'ing? If so, then approx. how long would that take? I know that it varies from school to school, so from whichever facility you built hours through CFI'ing, then let me know.
Btw, anyone familiar with PIC time building work (other than CFI'ing) in the SE Florida area?
Spoke to MAC HR individual this morning. She says that most are turned down b/c they don't meet mins. I asked if there was a pool and she said no. Also, was informed that Maiden is not the only base. I thought that it was . Goes to show how much I knew!!!
If I went this route it'd definitely be on the ATR-42 or -72, not the C-208.
atp
Last edited by atpwannabe; 03-03-2008 at 07:30 AM.
#88
atp
Last edited by atpwannabe; 03-03-2008 at 12:47 PM.
#89
Here is an abstract of an old suit filed by the Teamsters that shows what the IBT thinks of pilots who are paying:
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2000/27n008.html
Quote:
IBT filed challenges and objections to the list of eligible voters. The Organization challenged the eligibility of several individuals, including twenty-two "Pay-For-Time Pilots." The IBT argued that the Pay-For-Time Pilots were ineligible because they were "temporary," paid the Carrier for flight hours, and did not share working conditions with the employees in the craft or class. According to the Organization, these individuals were not on the seniority list and could not bid for routes.
End Quote
The NMB found in favor of the IBT.
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2000/27n008.html
Quote:
IBT filed challenges and objections to the list of eligible voters. The Organization challenged the eligibility of several individuals, including twenty-two "Pay-For-Time Pilots." The IBT argued that the Pay-For-Time Pilots were ineligible because they were "temporary," paid the Carrier for flight hours, and did not share working conditions with the employees in the craft or class. According to the Organization, these individuals were not on the seniority list and could not bid for routes.
End Quote
The NMB found in favor of the IBT.
#90
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 69
Here is an abstract of an old suit filed by the Teamsters that shows what the IBT thinks of pilots who are paying:
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2000/27n008.html
Quote:
IBT filed challenges and objections to the list of eligible voters. The Organization challenged the eligibility of several individuals, including twenty-two "Pay-For-Time Pilots." The IBT argued that the Pay-For-Time Pilots were ineligible because they were "temporary," paid the Carrier for flight hours, and did not share working conditions with the employees in the craft or class. According to the Organization, these individuals were not on the seniority list and could not bid for routes.
End Quote
The NMB found in favor of the IBT.
http://www.nmb.gov/representation/deter2000/27n008.html
Quote:
IBT filed challenges and objections to the list of eligible voters. The Organization challenged the eligibility of several individuals, including twenty-two "Pay-For-Time Pilots." The IBT argued that the Pay-For-Time Pilots were ineligible because they were "temporary," paid the Carrier for flight hours, and did not share working conditions with the employees in the craft or class. According to the Organization, these individuals were not on the seniority list and could not bid for routes.
End Quote
The NMB found in favor of the IBT.
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