SeatMeat

So, in three years with an airline you don't make more than 30K a year? hmmm. And you didn't know that you needed to file taxes? Does Riddle need to teach you how to file taxes too?! Last I checked they are not approved to provide DAYCARE FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU!!!

afterburn81

Sounds like someone has a little too much pride in where they went to school. I took his comment the way he meant it in that you won't average anymore than 30k a year for the first 3 years at most airlines. And that wasn't stressed enough. Times have definitely changed and when I went to Riddle, I'm sure all of my fellow graduates could agree with me that the mentality of the faculty was directed towards selling you to the loan companies. So it seemed. Sure we could do all the research we wanted but your mentors (professors and instructors) had a little more influence over us.

Bottom line is we were all being convinced that we were 100% on the right path to success and they were only about 60% right seeing as loving what you do is only about 60% of success. You gotta be able to pay the loans back. It's crazy that a loan company would give you 150k in loans having no collateral and KNOWING damn sure that wouldn't make enough for at least 4-5 years to even make a payment on that note. Now they are the ones that should do the research but I'm sure they did.

Just like the credit card companies - who are they to give someone (that isn't mature enough to drink alcohol never mind fathom 150K) money knowing that they couldn't pay it back. If it wasn't for the loan companies they would never be able to charge what they do. Not everyone can pay for the whole thing up front.

wrxsteve

embry sucks, get over it.

ComeFlyWithMe

I'm going to Embry next month. Get over THAT.

Never once did I hear anything from Embry about making lots of money after graduating. I had the opportunity to go there and see it for myself. I liked what I saw, checked my options financially, and made an informed decision.

What I like about it is that it is a 4-year university dedicated to aviation. It's not a university near an airport that has a flight program, nor is it an aviation certificate-mill.

I received some good scholarships, so I won't be paying the price of a house to attend there. Still, the cost is AT LEAST 15K per year. I plan on getting a part-time job, possibly NOT on campus. Working as a busboy I made over $9000 last year. I figure if I can up that by a few grand by applying as a waiter, I can cut my debt down to a reasonable amount.

I'll make it work. Next month, Prescott. If I decide it doesn't work for me, I can always transfer the following year.
I prefer real planes. A little Cessna won't cut it for me (unfortunately, I have "the disease"). Doctors have it little better than pilots. Their profit margins are VERY slim. The education process is long and expensive, and residency isn't great pay-wise. Heck I'd venture to guess pilots and doctors take about the same time to make the money everyone thinks they make (10-15 years). Doctors have an easier time getting ahead but their road is no easy highway.

As for pilot pay, is it safe to say we've hit rock bottom? I mean there's no conceivable way starting pilots can make LESS than $18,000 a year. Pay may be stagnant for awhile but I can't see it getting any worse. Thoughts?

afterburn81

I'm not being sarcastic and I support you all the way but I'm just trying to get some feedback. Are you going to ERAU for a professional flying job when you graduate? And if so how much did they quote that you would spend during your time there? If they told you around 150K (which seems to be what most of the guys I have spoken to have spent) for all four years and you know that when you graduate you'll probably have to instruct for a year or two which pays kind of low and then you'll get that regional job or charter job, whatever..........and they pay very low for the first few years. So it will be around 5-6 years after you graduate before you'll even be able to start paying back the investment. Plus there is the aviation cycle of up and down so you have that few years to throw in there depending on how you catch it. I'm just wondering if they stress this sort of thing when you tour or if they start to tell you once you already invested much time and money. Just curious.

SeatMeat

You're right- I do have pride in my school. I have pride in everything I do. I probably should have avoided the personal attack. Sometimes I get a bit carried away.

I really don't remember anyone telling me that I was going to make a ton of money right out of school and yes, they are going to try and sell you on the school by looking at the glass half full. What school wouldn't? They have a product to sell.

Anyone who enters aviation or any field should always research the field options first. That seems like a no-brainer to me.

inky13

I just graduated from the Riddle, Prescott campus. I'll be instructing here as well, my class date is in August. We've had a shortage of instructors here the beginning of last school year. Many freshmen were on the waiting list for an instructor up until November. Since I was a CFI student at the time, they [tried] giving me priority to get me finished as soon as possible but since instructors were loaded, it was difficult. Plus, I have had a part time job throughout my 4 years here, and will probably keep it as an instructor. I decided to instruct here simply because of the pretty much steady student load and the benefit package. You can't get that at a FBO where you might have 3 students (I'm talking part 61 FBO, not another 141) and no medical benefits. As far as students are concerned, you're always going to have those who's Mommys and Daddys are going to pay for everything. You'll also have those, like us here, who's having to do two jobs just to get the loans paid off.

When I visited the campus years ago, I was all about paying for the name on my degree. Now I realize it's really not that important. Sure when some people ask, "where do you go to school?" and you say, "Embry-Riddle" they say, "wow, good for you." There are people that say, "What's that, I've never heard of that place?" (I've had pilots even respond with that). I would agree in that you should consider getting a degree in something other than aviation, my minor was in math because I like math and it's something else I can fall back on. Although there are some classes that I found helpful in the Aeronautical Science program after doing an internship at American, i.e. the domestic and international navigation class, FMS class, turbine engines class, etc.

They never sold to me that i'd make a lot of money right out of school, it's more of a "well, if your heart is set on flying airplanes, we can help you here, especially if you're looking for an airline career." I came in with my private single, which took some more time because Riddle had me go through a "Standardization Course" to "Riddle-ize" my flying. My first year they gave me decent federal loans and grants, the second year not so much, but the third and fourth back to decent.

And BTW, I believe tuition is up to about $1200/credit now for new incoming freshmen.

ComeFlyWithMe

Well tuition is around $28,000 per year (rounded up), room/board is around $10,000, and flight training was averaged to be between $10,000 and $15,000. So altogether it was between $48,000 and $53,000 per year. Keep in mind that that is the "trust fund baby price," meaning that if you are a trust fund baby your rich parents will throw down that amount. With scholarships and federal aid I've dropped to under $20,000 per year. Sounds good until you realize that it's over $70,000 total.

The Dean of Admissions said that the difference between $10,000 flight costs and $15,000 flight costs is not having to repeat lessons. So I plan on getting it right the first time.
This is what I experienced. I NEVER sensed that they were trying to sell me the "pilots make big bucks" BS. I pretty much figured it out myself that it was going to take awhile to build up to a decent income. I estimated between 10 and 15 years.

What Embry DID mention is that they are VERY devoted to aviation and the success of their students. Didn't really approach the money issue. Figured I'd learn about it myself.

inky13

Well, here's what I paid for each flight course, for another perspective for you. I was considered to be a good student by my instructors (I.e. required minimal repeats and had minimal failures). What's going to make it $15,000 as opposed to $10,000, as you said, failures of lessons (aka "units") and incompleting units and repeating units (usually due to a failure of a unit).

This is what I did in my flight training:

FA133.1 Standardization Course $2993.90 - 4 repeats/1 failure/2 incompletes
FA133USF Extreme Attitude Recovery (required for me, but well worth it!) $1694.76 - 0/0/0
FA133 Multi-engine add-on Rating $5031.00 - 1/0/0
FA232 Instrument (single & multi) $19884.04 - 3/0/3
FA272 Multi-engine Commercial $5541.26 - 3/1/5
FA273 Single-engine Commercial add-on $2361.17 - 2/1/1 (Failed checkride)
FA420 Airline Flight Crew Techniques and Procedures (A320 sim) $2236.80 - 0/0/0
FA417 CFI/CFII $11554.68 - 9/0/21 (21 incompletes because the orals were usually not scheduled long enough to complete all items that needed to be covered).

That's a total of: $51,297.61

Depending on the degree you get some flight courses are optional. FA420 is optional and you don't have to get your CFI's here either to graduate.

FlyByCable

I fly for the MOST DESIRED airline in the world. I have NO college and a 1.7 high school GPA. Get over THAT! You don't need a Riddle degree to succeed.