pagey

Doing a stage check on Saturday a question came up that I wasn't too sure about. Some help please! asked the student about where mode c was required and he mentioned under a class bravo but OUTSIDE of the mode c veil. An example I found was Dulles. The regs seem to agree because it says "within the lateral limits" but I have never heard of it before....Input please.

pokey9554

The way I was taught was under the Mode C veil of class B is where mode C is required. After reading the regs again, I interpret them to say under the lateral limits as well as the mode C veil.

Some other opinions wouldn't hurt though.

inky13

I've heard of it being interpreted as under Class B as well, no matter the veil. And if you think about it, it makes sense. If ATC can't verify your altitude, he/she doesn't know if you're in his/her Bravo or not.

Planespotta

"All aircraft operating within 30 NM of a Class B airport, from the surface to 10,000 feet, must have Mode C unless the aircraft was originally certified without an electrical system and still does not have one."

pagey

Yea....thats not the question. OUTSIDE of the mode c veil

Planespotta

I think you do. How could it make sense not to?

rickair7777

I do not believe you need mode C outside the 30NM veil if you are under the B. You would need it inside the B of course.

250 or point 65

§ 91.215 ATC transponder and altitude reporting equipment and use.

(a) All airspace: U.S.-registered civil aircraft. For operations not conducted under part 121 or 135 of this chapter, ATC transponder equipment installed must meet the performance and environmental requirements of any class of TSO-C74b (Mode A) or any class of TSO-C74c (Mode A with altitude reporting capability) as appropriate, or the appropriate class of TSO-C112 (Mode S).

(b) All airspace. Unless otherwise authorized or directed by ATC, no person may operate an aircraft in the airspace described in paragraphs (b)(1) through (b)(5) of this section, unless that aircraft is equipped with an operable coded radar beacon transponder having either Mode 3/A 4096 code capability, replying to Mode 3/A interrogations with the code specified by ATC, or a Mode S capability, replying to Mode 3/A interrogations with the code specified by ATC and intermode and Mode S interrogations in accordance with the applicable provisions specified in TSO C–112, and that aircraft is equipped with automatic pressure altitude reporting equipment having a Mode C capability that automatically replies to Mode C interrogations by transmitting pressure altitude information in 100-foot increments. This requirement applies—
(1) All aircraft. In Class A, Class B, and Class C airspace areas;
(2) All aircraft. In all airspace within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 of this part from the surface upward to 10,000 feet MSL;
The Mode C Vail

(3) Notwithstanding paragraph (b)(2) of this section, any aircraft which was not originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon or glider may conduct operations in the airspace within 30 nautical miles of an airport listed in appendix D, section 1 of this part provided such operations are conducted—
(i) Outside any Class A, Class B, or Class C airspace area; and
(ii) Below the altitude of the ceiling of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower; and
(4) All aircraft in all airspace above the ceiling and within the lateral boundaries of a Class B or Class C airspace area designated for an airport upward to 10,000 feet MSL; and
In and above B and C

(5) All aircraft except any aircraft which was not originally certificated with an engine-driven electrical system or which has not subsequently been certified with such a system installed, balloon, or glider—
(i) In all airspace of the 48 contiguous states and the District of Columbia at and above 10,000 feet MSL, excluding the airspace at and below 2,500 feet above the surface; and
Above 10,000

(ii) In the airspace from the surface to 10,000 feet MSL within a 10-nautical-mile radius of any airport listed in appendix D, section 2 of this part, excluding the airspace below 1,200 feet outside of the lateral boundaries of the surface area of the airspace designated for that airport.


Says nothing about BELOW class B airspace.

pagey

my initial reaction was that it cannot be. I guess I just confused myself by over-reading 215, or perhaps not noticing an "and" somewhere. Thanks for the help.

nyalex

Just within the mode C veil, regardless of altitude. If you were required to have it below B airspace at anytime, what would the be the point of the veil in the first place?