UnlimitedAkro

Since you want to get it at the highest pass right and the lowest price:

Get it at a regional airline when you upgrade. You'll get paid, and you'll pass. That was easy.

CrustyFE

All ATP's is a certificate mill. Some or their schools are good and others aren't. It would pay to do your homework before you do any training with any school. In Tacoma, WA, All ATP's had a 30% passing rate for non-military ATP applicants. The DPE they used said a lot of the students did not know the GPS very well and because of that, they would get distracted trying to figure it out in flight. Systems knowledge was also weak. All ATP's started sending their ATP students to a DPE in Portland because they didn't like the DPE. I used the same DPE for my ATP students and had no problems.

Find out which DPE your chosen flight school uses, then call that DPE personally and ask them how the training is for the school they give practicals for. Ask them how the passage rate is for the school and what areas they may be deficient on.

There's usually just one ATP DPE assigned to any given area for any specific aircraft. If the flight school doesn't tell you who that is, check with the local FSDO. They'll tell you.

Also, you may or may not know this: you don't need a CFI to give you any instruction at all for an ATP. A CFI signature is not required on the 8710. It's all based on experience and not any specific training for an ATP. If you have the experience and are proficient in the aircraft you plan on using for the practical, you can just take the practical.

Training should only be required if you need to get checked out in an aircraft and then practice the ATP checkride with an instructor in that aircraft.

I was the ATP instructor for Galvin Flying Services on Boeing Field in Seattle. I created the ATP program to compete with ALL ATP's in TACOMA. I used the same DPE that they did and my passage rate was 100% I only had four students before I got hired by Eagle though. All four passed with accolades from the DPE.

When I did my own ATP it was after I trained the four students so I was very proficient with almost everything required. I did do one practice flight from the left seat because I had been in the right seat every other time with my students. I had another CFI with me so I could be under the hood. That was the only training I did for myself and although I had that CFI sign the 8710, I did that so he could have the 8710 under his belt. But it didn't need to be signed by a CFI. If a CFI signs it though, they get the credit, or hit depending on how the practical goes.

Study the ATP PTS and try to find an ATP DPE who sticks to it. Ask the ATP DPE what they expect. Make an appointment with the DPE and interview them. I've done that when looking for a DPE for my students. I rejected one of them because I didn't trust them. There are a lot of whacked out DPE's who like to create their own standards. SOme of them develop a god complex. Find out as much as you can about the DPE by calling the flight schools in the area and talking to the instructors. If a DPE is whacked out, the local CFI's usually know about it because the DPE will have a reputation.

So basically you'll want to ask the DPE about the school and then ask the CFI's at any local school about the DPE. You want to find out as much as you can and that way you can make a better choice.

Hope some of that helps.

seafeye

I agree with getting a type rating as well. No need spending any money flying a light twin.

thndr8

I'm trying to get mine done right now. Stopped just short of the checkride with ALLATP's. I wouldn't have passed. I have 3300TT with the last 4 years flying glass in RJ's. I got back in that seminole after 4 years and found it overwhelming. Stuck below 5,000 ft getting banged around in turbulence for the entire ride, balancing your charts on your kneecaps, looking at the smallest AI that I've seen in awhile, and looking across the entire panel for your information made me airsick under the hood. Not to mention, an airplane that will not trim out straight and level ever. I'm going to rent a cheap Arrow for a few hours and get used to the environment again. I caution you, if you've been out of GA for awhile, do the 10 hr course at a minimum. I'm the guy that kicks off the autopilot and flight director above 10,000 ft and flys raw data in an RJ to landing and I still had trouble with that damn seminole. Just FYI.

CrustyFE

Three of my ATP students fell in the same category. One was from the Air Force who retired after 22 years. The Air Force guy had the most issues, but it was self induced because he didn't study very well. He still did pretty good because his military training pulled him through.

The regional guys all did much better because they did study. One had been out of the Seminole for just over two years and was flying ERJ 145's.

My course had eight hours of multi engine FTD time and eight hours of flight time. The FTD time allowed them to become familiar with what needed to be done so that when they got into the Seminole, all they really needed to do was just fly what they already knew.

Also, I sent a training package out to each student at least one month prior to training so they could study systems and more importantly, know the GPS. Our Seminole had a Garmin 430/530 stack. I also directed them to a downloadable Garmin simulator for those GPS so they could practice the most important functions of the GPS. That was key..... When they got into the aircraft, they knew exactly what to do with the GPS and it was a non-issue.

Herb Flemmming

Cubdriver

I'm all for achievement but you have to wonder what is the purpose of such achievement tirades. I remember a staff meeting at a Part 135 company I used to work for with about 45 other humble hard working guys, and the company had flown in a NASA 747 pilot to talk to use about safety. You know, the one that carries the Space Shuttle around. That was fine and dandy but nobody introduced this guy and he was just standing there looking kind of sheepish, so I raised my hand and said "hi there, who are you?" Then the guy parks himself in front of me and proceeds to stare me down giving his entire resume from being a Cal Tech PhD at age 22 to his 30 type ratings to his present position as captain of the Space Shuttle 747. I was unimpressed, and not at all because of his fine resume.

USMCFLYR

What was the AF guy's background and how long had it been since he had flown a GA aircraft?

When I first retired out of the military I hadn't ever seen or worked with any Garmin product. I too found the simulator on-line and worked through the entire package and read the user's manuel and found it to be an incredible help. In my current job I am now using a Trimble 800 GPS and there is no information on-line (probably too old ), and continue to have to relearn some aspects nearly every time I go flying it seems.

USMCFLYR

chignutsak

Caltech PhD and this guy flies a crippled 747 around? Geesh he could do so much more with that degree and fly for fun with his riches.

CrustyFE

He flew KC-135's, U2, B1B, and maybe one other airframe. Not in that order. I don't think he had been in GA for his entire 22 years, but I don't remember.


The Air Force pilot was applying to FedEx and was busy trying to work that connection. I offered free extra training to him to help him with the GPS simulator. That was his weak spot. He refused the extra training.

He was also weak on VOR knowledge to the point that he wasn't sure what a VOR was. I found this a little confusing since I flew in the Navy for twenty years as a C-130 and B707 flight engineer and I knew what a VOR was. He was familiar with TACAN's so I had to explain the similarities to a VOR and DME. I didn't understand why his VOR knowledge was weak. As far as I know the Air Force uses VOR's like everyone else, but I could be wrong. I didn't ask why he didn't know about VOR's.

His experience and prior training carried him through.

The more training my students did before showing up at the school, the better they performed. But it also helped to know exactly what to train for which is why I worked with the DPE when I set up the course.