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Old 07-22-2012, 07:31 AM   #11  
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Originally Posted by hotbwayjoel View Post
Well I have been on here for while, sign on at least once every two days, but I don't post very often... So this is new for me....

Anywho, I have been instructing for a year now and I just got my MEI cert., last friday(yay me). Now I have my first multi student on Monday, and let me be frank. I'm a bit nervous about getting into some brown stuff my toosh can't cash.

So is there any advice from some experienced instructors out there, that have been around the block a couple of times, or any horror stories that you will be willing to share?

- Joel

You have exactly the right attitude for a MEI instructor, especially a new one: Scared.

Don't let it show but use that fear as a tool to keep you on your toes.

If you really start to lose it on a Vmc demo or engine cut and it's starting to rotate, pull BOTH engines to idle...now it's just like an ASEL and you already know how to handle that. The cut engine is not the one that's going to kill you, it's the one at full power...keep that in mind.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:36 AM   #12  
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I know a couple guys that have been spun by students in a multi... it always happens when you least expect it and when you are least prepared for it. Beware a secondary spin! Once you stop rotation and return the nose to the horizon, remember to ease off the rudder. A buddy of mine spun a twin from 4500 and then got into a secondary spin and managed to recover at about 1,000 feet. Scary stuff. He had to pretty much push the nose over 90* to break the stall.

I almost spun the aircraft when I was working on my multi... it was my first Vmc demo and I let the aircraft roll over about 90* before realizing what was happening. It happened so fast (the Tecnam really liked to snap over with a quickness) that even my instructor wasn't prepared. He had over 500 multi hours at the time. BE VIGILANT!
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Old 07-22-2012, 11:47 AM   #13  
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I know a couple guys that have been spun by students in a multi... it always happens when you least expect it and when you are least prepared for it. Beware a secondary spin! Once you stop rotation and return the nose to the horizon, remember to ease off the rudder. A buddy of mine spun a twin from 4500 and then got into a secondary spin and managed to recover at about 1,000 feet. Scary stuff. He had to pretty much push the nose over 90* to break the stall.

I almost spun the aircraft when I was working on my multi... it was my first Vmc demo and I let the aircraft roll over about 90* before realizing what was happening. It happened so fast (the Tecnam really liked to snap over with a quickness) that even my instructor wasn't prepared. He had over 500 multi hours at the time. BE VIGILANT!
Had a spin happen to a DPE on a checkride. He was VERY shaken up when he came back and didn't say much. Smoked probably 3 cigarettes. We were all like ?????
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Old 07-22-2012, 12:23 PM   #14  
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if the student is white knuckling the throttles on take off remember you have the mixtures to pull to stop anything from happening. For example, you pull a throttle closed on take off and the student doesn't retard the other throttle....don't try to figure out which mixture to pull just pull both of them. Had a student try to take off on me when I pulled a engine on take-off. Just anyways have a plan b AND c. Don't lose your concept of scanning for emergency landing spots either.

Have fun with it but remember it's a plane and to always fly it.
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Old 07-22-2012, 07:07 PM   #15  
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When you fail an engine block the opposite rudder.

For example, if you fail the left engine put a little pressure on the right pedal, not enough to move it, but enough to prevent it from moving after. So if your student pushes the wrong rudder your foot will be there to stop it.
I will always remember that!

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If you are worried about improper engine out response at low altitude, your apprehension is a sign you are not ready for the worst case of a new student pulling the wrong throttle, stomping the wrong rudder and rolling the plane. The latter can of course quickly devolve into an unrecoverable spin. Even docile trainer twins have been lost this way, I recall an AllATPs Seminole a few years ago rolling over to a loss. The thing to do is get a more advanced MEI to take a short ride with you, you on the right him on the left, and have him deliberately demonstrate improper student engine-out response recovery. If he knows the airplane well he should be able to let it go pretty far to let you see what can happen, how it happens, and what to do to prevent or stop it. When you have that experience, the rest is easy because nothing can be more dangerous.
When I go up with the chief for my checkout in the morning i'll have him show me these things...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
You have exactly the right attitude for a MEI instructor, especially a new one: Scared.

Don't let it show but use that fear as a tool to keep you on your toes.

If you really start to lose it on a Vmc demo or engine cut and it's starting to rotate, pull BOTH engines to idle...now it's just like an ASEL and you already know how to handle that. The cut engine is not the one that's going to kill you, it's the one at full power...keep that in mind.
Hmm.. never thought of it like that. I will be sure to use this technique as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisreedrules View Post
I know a couple guys that have been spun by students in a multi... it always happens when you least expect it and when you are least prepared for it. Beware a secondary spin! Once you stop rotation and return the nose to the horizon, remember to ease off the rudder. A buddy of mine spun a twin from 4500 and then got into a secondary spin and managed to recover at about 1,000 feet. Scary stuff. He had to pretty much push the nose over 90* to break the stall.

I almost spun the aircraft when I was working on my multi... it was my first Vmc demo and I let the aircraft roll over about 90* before realizing what was happening. It happened so fast (the Tecnam really liked to snap over with a quickness) that even my instructor wasn't prepared. He had over 500 multi hours at the time. BE VIGILANT!
This is what I fear.. The inevitable, spin or engine failure on takeoff, student feathering the op engine, stepping on the wrong rudder. I guess its just an odds and numbers game. Lets hope that I have rolled the dyce a couple of times and have been well comfortable in the right seat before my fate becomes inevitable.

I guess the moral of the story is to be VERY alert and vigilant while instructing, in an effort to PREVENT anything bad from happening. I just want to thank you all for taking the time to giving your two coins(which ever currency you use), as this has really given me a confidence boost!
Ill be sure to let you guys know what happened tomorrow after my flight!

- Joel
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:44 PM   #16  
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I would suggest keeping the first lesson rather simple. Go out and just fly around, do a stall or two and come back for some pattern work. Leave all that single engine stuff alone. It will give you and your student a chance to get more comfortable. Especially if its your first ever student. Remember, your student probably doesnt know the difference anyway and will be thrilled to be flying something with a second engine. Have fun!
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:16 PM   #17  
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Well, one thing to think about is that there are certain things you teach to SINGLE ENGINE students that help to set them up for more complex airplanes with more engines. You NEVER EVER let them get slow, you make them keep their hand glued to the throttle during any critical phase of flight (takeoff, landing, low alts). You look for disconnects such as students that don't pitch down automatically when they increase flaps, you look for students that don't slow down and manage airspeed before descents, you have them do a short field landing on the numbers and see if they are prematurely "pulling up" because they are over the dirt and freaked out by it, you look for students that are fixated on the runway during base that pitch up while they are turning to final, you look for the signs that they don't really understand coordination (yaw) during stalls and other maneuvers (like chasing the inclinometer, which the purpose of is to tell you that you've already screwed up ). None of these are multi-engine specific, yet they are all the reasons that someone will kill themselves in a more complex or multi-engine aircraft. I'm not saying that you have to go back to SE aircraft with these kinds of students (well, maybe, haha), it's just that you are looking for a lot of the same things, and you obviously address these before you worry about attempting a Vmc demo or single engine approach.

Nothing in here is radically different if you take the same approach with SE airplanes. Brief your plan of action, then execute your plan of action if something goes wrong. It used to bug me to no end on checkrides when and experienced student would brief "and if something goes wrong, I'll give you the controls". Always be prepared to do what you brief. Chances are you'll do it really crappy, but at least survive
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Old 07-23-2012, 02:31 AM   #18  
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I only have about 750 dual given in the seminole with a range of PMEL, CMEL, ATP, MEI, and CFII. I enjoyed multi instructing a lot more once I really had a grasp on all the material. I was doing it all in Vegas with lots of terrain and did a lot of flying the middle of the night...

I got a few things for you to always remember..

"MY CONTROLS".. Be ready all the time. The multi instructing is a different animal and you'd be surprised how stupid students can get in those airplanes.

"GO AROUND".. Cutting the power at a high altitude seems to be a cool thing for these people to do because they are used to flying a 172.. Be ready for them to screw up the landings. Be sure to really dry fly all the landing flare etc.

"MEMORY ITEMS".. The engine failures will be tough for first time multi guys. Just drill the memory items into their head. Dry fly dry fly dry fly.. I had them dry fly the crap out of the engine fail checklist as well as the gear down before landing checklist. My students really benefited from that. Also make them consider terrain and conditions right away. (not sure if you're by mountains or not)..

ILS approaches- this will be a common task with the SE ILS. This is going to take work. These guys have never done stuff like this and their brains will have to handle about 837493 things at once, just like you and I did when we first learned. Be patient and just talk them through the first few. Show them how to adjust the scan and make sure the SE ILS is one of their strongest items. I've seen instructors kind of blow it off and when checkride time came, their student didn't hack it.


Good luck man. You'll be fine, and good luck to your students.
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