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Old 09-15-2012, 03:12 AM   #1  
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Default ATP - from zero to hero

Hello ladys and gents,

I have a question....actually a couple of questions...

I am a german citizen and started my flying career in the US a long time ago. I did a US PPL and US IFR. After I finished my university degree, I continued pilot training under the european system.

I loved the flying in the US. Especially the hands on flying and airmanship aspect.
To broaden my horizon I would like to do a US CPL, ATP, ME.
What is the best way to go?
How much time do I have to plan in?

Since about five years I am flying Airbuses for a major german airline, full German ATPL,CPL,CRI, Flightinstructor, TT: ca. 3500h.
Last year ca. Mobil: 140h SEP Flying, VFR only.
So I am current regarding SEP flying, but I have not touched a Multiengine Piston for five years. TT ME is only 40 hours. Rating not current.

Do you have any ideas?

My ideas so far:

US CPL
ME
ATP ME

Thanks for any input,

Chris
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:33 AM   #2  
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As the holder of an ICAO ATP you can skip the FAA commercial if you want. 61.153(d)(3) allows you to go straight to the ATP level. Or you could get a commercial SEL and then do a MEL ATP if all you want is a commercial SEL. The commercial checkride is mainly a bunch of visual maneuvers while the ATP ride is a fancy instrument checkride. Any way you do it should only take two checkrides.

Last edited by Twin Wasp; 09-15-2012 at 08:33 AM. Reason: fat fingers
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Old 09-15-2012, 08:35 AM   #3  
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Grüß Gott! Ich habe Doppelstaatsbürgerschaft für die USA und Deutschland . Unless you desire to work for a US airline, I wouldnt waste my time or money. If you're flying an Airbus now, you should stay where you're at.
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Old 09-15-2012, 10:21 AM   #4  
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@Twin Wasp:
If I do the commercial sel and then the ATP mel, does it automatically include the commercial mel?
Or is it necessary to do the commercial sel, then me rating and then the ATP check?
How much preparation would that take? Especially flying-wise?

@ Cbusbased:
Guten Tag . I want to stay in the company and have no green card either. The US license is just a backup plan on the one side and on the other side it should be a stick and rudder refresher.
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Old 09-15-2012, 12:29 PM   #5  
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I'm not quite sure what you mean by "include." You will not have "commercial multi-engine land" on your certificate. But an ATP has the same privileges as a commercial pilot with an instrument rating per 61.167. In addition they can be the PIC for air carrier flights and can instruct in airline operations without holding a CFI.

You could just get the SEL ATP and then the MEL. Your certificate would say "Airline Transport Pilot Single and Multi-engine Land. But you only need to complete two checkrides, one for the highest level SEL you want and one for the MEL ATP. The order does not matter.

Hard to say how much training. For the ATP 10-15 hours? The check will include a rejected takeoff and a low vis takeoff, you'll do some steep turns and stalls under the hood and hold. Two non-precision approaches, one straight in and one circling, one to a landing and one miss. And a normal ILS and two ILSs with an engine inop, one to miss and then another to a landing. A lot like an airline PC. If you do the SEL ATP you don't have to worry about the one engine inop stuff.

For the commercial coming off the bus I'd say 10 hours, maybe a bit more. It's all visual stuff, short and soft field TO and landings, VFR slow flight, stalls and steep turns, Lazy 8s, Chandelles and 8s on Pylons (I couldn't pass any of the last three today without a couple hours brush up.) And the engien will quit sometime during the ride.
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:32 AM   #6  
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Hi Twin Wasp!

Thank you very much for your explanation.
"include" ment as you assumed Commercial ME Land :-)

Actually it does not make sense to do the cpl.
On the other side: the US CPL seems to be a very good stick and rudder refresher.

As I have written above I am current on SEP aircraft.
Is this course of action realistic:

CPL SE 10h
CPL ME 5h
ATP ME 10h
ATP SE 0h

Roughly 25-30h plus Checkrides?
Can I combine Checkrides or is it 4 Checks each?
How long would that take and how much does such a programm cost?

Sorry for asking so many questions,

Christian :-)
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:46 AM   #7  
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I don't think there is any need to do the CPL, just take the ATP writtens and practicals. You will need both a SE and an ME exam, if you want to have both on your ATP, but why bother with the ATP SE? Having the ATP gives you IR authority in singles and multis. There is no SE operation that requires a ATP.

GF
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Old 09-19-2012, 07:28 AM   #8  
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If you just want some stick and rudder practice, why not do some of those enrichment programs, like Mountain Flying and Upset Recovery? I know FlightSafety Academy offers Upset Recover (Extra 300LP) as well as other courses, but I can't remember who offers mountain flying.

Alternatively, you can always just rent a plane for some fun flying. Maybe a sail plane in some really nice scenery. . . that's what I would do, anyway. . .
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:03 AM   #9  
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Your hour guess is reasonable. As everyone else has said, there is no reason for the commercial MEL. As soon as you complete the ATP MEL checkride you will be issued a certificate that no longer has commercial MEL on it because the ATP trumps the commercial. The only possible reason I can think of is if you getting a MEI. Then you would know what your students will go through to get a commercial.
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Old 09-19-2012, 10:33 AM   #10  
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Thank you very much for your excellent information.

In that case, I will start with the ATP. If there is enough time left, some tailwheelflying is next. The US-ATP is for me a worst case backup (loosing my JAA medical, etc.), to have a separate license. I do not want to take anyones job in the US.

Now I have to find the right flightschool...:-)

If any of you visits the Frankfurt or Munich area, let me know. I owe you a beer.

Best regards,

Chris
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