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Old 12-02-2012, 08:15 AM   #21  
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I only do engine shutdowns in the summer because I hate doing top overhauls and buying cylinders...just kidding but seriously my school was a MI school so we always tried to balance shutdowns with minimizing damage. Hey, when you pay the bills you have to. I use 5K over the airport.

I also remind them that we are operating under the premise of a cruise engine failure in this scenario. You've got time and performance. If they get the impression/misconception (based on cruise, driftdown, etc) that they are going to climb on Takeoff in a Seminole, Dutchess, Seneca, etc. They are sorely mistaken.
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Old 12-02-2012, 08:36 AM   #22  
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Originally Posted by Std Deviation View Post
I only do engine shutdowns in the summer because I hate doing top overhauls and buying cylinders...just kidding but seriously my school was a MI school so we always tried to balance shutdowns with minimizing damage. Hey, when you pay the bills you have to. I use 5K over the airport.

I also remind them that we are operating under the premise of a cruise engine failure in this scenario. You've got time and performance. If they get the impression/misconception (based on cruise, driftdown, etc) that they are going to climb on Takeoff in a Seminole, Dutchess, Seneca, etc. They are sorely mistaken.
That's what simulators are useful for, but there are plenty of climbs happening out in practice areas. As long as at or above Vsse, all is fair and makes for good training with a competent instructor.
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:02 AM   #23  
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Originally Posted by MusDg View Post
Does anyone have an opinion on engine shutdown/feather and then doing un-feather/air start for multi engine training? The norm, good, bad, etc.
I really don't have an opinion and never thought about offering one as it's a required maneuver in training, required on PC's and required on a type ride. In the multi-engine turbine world of Part 121, one spends a good part of the training program with one engine inoperative.

We also have to shut each engine down and re-start it in flight after a "D" Check.

Engine Fire, Failure or Shut-down Checklist please.

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Old 12-02-2012, 10:14 AM   #24  
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I've done plenty of actual engine shut downs in flight and I don't see the problem. You should teach your student how to fly the aircraft with one engine. I've even done a couple of single engine slip to landings before. Not a big deal, just make sure you keep the airspeed up a bit.
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Old 12-02-2012, 03:20 PM   #25  
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Why would you sell your student short by not shutting it down? As a student at ATP we had strict policies that we adhered to and I agree with them. In the pattern only a simulated engine failure was allowed. You went through the procedure and would start pulling the mixture and your hand would get bumped to show they knew you know what you are doing. Even all the DPE's would follow this. If we wanted to shut it down it could be done as long as you were over 3500. One thing that is important to teach when at a SAFE altitude is that you want to make sure you troubleshoot the engine first. An engine providing partial power is still better than no engine (unless it's a prop over speed issue). After we did our troubleshoot check list we would go ahead and secure that engine and than restart it. I spent most of my multi engine training flying on one engine and I am glad I did. Had a real emergency happened with no instructor I think I would of faired pretty well. I also recommend teaching single engine go around's. This is something that ATP (as far as I know) refuses to teach and I think it needs to be done. What happens when you are at 500 ft one day and some creates an incursion and you need to go around? Better to find out you can or can't do it with two engines than only one. Lastly, I think by not shutting down or not teaching it is setting up some one for a potentially life ending failure.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:29 AM   #26  
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What happens when you are at 500 ft one day and some creates an incursion and you need to go around?.

In a part 23 certified aircraft, historically a stall spin accident.
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Old 12-03-2012, 05:34 AM   #27  
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1. After 700 Simulated -( dont cut the engine mixture) Remember to guard the good engine,and guard your rudder's
2.after 4,500 agl - cutting the mixture - remember to guard the engine when the student is troubleshooting -
3. intercepting Final Approach Course / intercepting glideslope - simulated 4. taking of roll - simulated remember below half of Vysse-


words of wisdom - remember to guard your engines and your dead foot and think twice . what thinks can happen before the student do it .
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Old 12-11-2012, 04:14 PM   #28  
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I remember many moons ago, was out over the ocean in the back seat as an extra set of eyes in a PA30. The instructor killed the left engine, student instructed to do a complete shutdown. Everything was fine until he killed the mags on the running engine. I told the instructor I could not swim, and I didn't want to be shark food. The instructor practically pushed the student out the side wall lunging for the mag switches (left sidewall).
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:42 PM   #29  
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Originally Posted by wizepilot View Post
I remember many moons ago, was out over the ocean in the back seat as an extra set of eyes in a PA30. The instructor killed the left engine, student instructed to do a complete shutdown. Everything was fine until he killed the mags on the running engine. I told the instructor I could not swim, and I didn't want to be shark food. The instructor practically pushed the student out the side wall lunging for the mag switches (left sidewall).
I've seen that before (on the ground, thankfully). When it comes to big items like that, I have the student call out the action, pause, then push the button/switch.

All of my students have done multiple full shutdown and relight sequences. I'd also have them do some gentle manoeuvring to show that the plane is still completely controllable with one engine feathered.
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:25 AM   #30  
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First off your there are four different engine failures you will have for the check ride.

1.On the roll 50% vmc
2. Minimum 500 ft AGL (simulated)
3. PTS minimum 3000ft AGL but most school have higher alt. (Full feathering and restarting)
4 Single engine approach (instrument/visual) (simulated)

Tips:
Prep your students on the ground. Be specific on what you are going to do and what the student is going to do.
Very early on get in a habit of failing both engines. Instructors that don't tend to have students that hit the wrong rudder. Ill even catch myself focusing on cutting the left one too much.
I could give you more tips but most people already covered those topics. Good luck.
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