pacificbum

Hi guys,
Just looking for some advice in obtaining my instrument rating. The 2 schools I'm looking at have a different approach to instrument instruction and thought it would be helpful to hear from pilots who have already done this.

One school obtained a redbird mcx full motion simulator and focus the first half of their curriculum in the sim, and after the student in proficient in all the instrument procedures, they transition to training in the airplane. Seems to make sense to me, but never flown in sims and not sure how accurate it does replicate actual flying. They break up the hours into 20 hr sim/ 20 airplane ( I know these are just minimums and will most likely take more time).

The other school focus much more time in an airplane, which sounds good but also a bit more expensive. They focus airplane work up front and only use minimal sim time (only up to 10 hours bc of their 141 curriculum) to teach procedures such as holds and approaches.

It seems like a lot of instrument lessons are simply procedures so does it make sense to do them in the airplane at a higher cost? Are you at any disadvantage doing more instrument flight in the redbird sim? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the help.

N9373M

I would recommend the aircraft. IR requires cockpit organization and the ability to develop an instrument scan. While these can be done in the sim, it's a whole different ball game when you're being bounced around - finding charts, fixes, switchology, the 5 T's, freqs, GPS, etc. You need to experience vertigo and learn to overcome it. I don't know if you can get that in the sim.

Another important factor is the language of IFR. You'll pick it up faster the more you hear it. Better chances of hearing others in the soup as well as yourself (or get a scanner) to get a handle of the clearances, vectors, EFCs, etc.

Good luck - let us know how it goes.

UnderOveur

While 73M makes some excellent points above, I would go this ^^^ route. Here's why...

1. You can fly 2x the number of approaches in an hour in the sim as you can in a real plane...that's 2x the practice at approx. 1/3 the cost per hour. More bang for your buck. This is because your instructor can reset an approach after you've flown it, rather than having to fly all the way back to the beginning of the approach.

2. Your instructor can pause the sim and go over important points/items at any time. This is VERY valuable, especially early on when you are learning the procedures and the situational awareness that goes along with IFR. There is no pause button in a real plane. See #1 above.

3. Speaking to 73M's point re: radio work...it is likely you will feel a bit overwhelmed both flying an approach and performing the required radio calls/responses at the start. Far easier to learn the language, expected radio calls, and responses in the sim with your instructor before heading out to do it "live". Again, see point #1.

Naturally, I got my ticket 73M's way, and I wish I had done it the way I am recommending to you, if only for the $$ I know I would've saved. Then again, the school I trained at didn't have a sim at that time, so...

YMMV

rickair7777

I would start with the sim too. It's vital to build a basis of certain fundamental instrument skills before mixing in real-world distractions....that's why sims were even invented in the first place.


OTH, if it were my program, I would mix it up a little...do basic attitude flying (climbs, descents, turns, intercepting, tracking)) and then try it in the airplane. Then back to the sim for holds, then the airplane again. Back to the sim for non-precision approaches, then back to the plane. The precision approaches, etc. But if that's not an option, I'd rather do all the sim up front than no sim at all.

Hawker Driver

+1

The advantages of going the simulator route are:

No seat of the pants to assist you.
Greater sensitivity=more difficult=improved scan more quickly
Less cost.
Far more efficient use of time.

Ottopilot

Use the SIM. It's the better way to train instrument flying.

pacificbum

Thank you all for the advice. After sleeping on it last night, I'm leaning towards trying the sim too. I figure why not try it out for a few lessons too, think it would be worth it to give them a shot. I have done a few BAI flights in an airplane, so I guess I can compare and try to make a more informed decision too. Thanks again for the input, and if anyone else has tried a similar route, would be great to hear from you.

Yoda2

These are all excellent perspectives and advice. Additionally the three biggest issues you will probably deal with are; holding, copying a clearance and having the confidence and competence to safely operate in the system, in actual conditions. Do not just approach this training with the goal of passing a checkride. If you have time, I might suggest learning the holding procedures, and the rules associated with it. Most everyone gets wrapped around the axle while learning that skill. It will really make things easier, once you officially start your training. Get the knowledge test out the way as well, it will greatly help with your training and you will not have that monkey on your back when approaching checkride time or to interfere with other studies. Good luck

N9373M

You may want to purchase a flight sim for your PC. I've got X-Plane ($99), a joystick and throttle (another $100ish) and use it to brush up on my scan. You can't log it, but you can practice approaches and holds in your area. The key is learning the scan technique.

rickair7777

Yes, this works. Good for scan and procedures. use an airplane similar to your trainer and use the checklists from the real airplane.