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Old 01-08-2019, 08:09 PM   #61  
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What is wrong with europilots? One could do better both monetarily and quality of life/time off flying in Asia.

Until europilots walk away from such ludicrous flying jobs, wages will continue to suck in euroland. Surely there are jobs with better working conditions/higher pay in euroland that don't involve flying aircraft.
Europilots used to think the same back in 07 when a USAIR 330 Captain was making $160/hr and they made double. Itís cyclical.
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Old 01-09-2019, 10:51 AM   #62  
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Europilots used to think the same back in 07 when a USAIR 330 Captain was making $160/hr and they made double. Itís cyclical.
But...but...but...It was pilots from America undercutting those darned Europeans and that is okay.
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Old 01-09-2019, 01:39 PM   #63  
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But...but...but...It was pilots from America undercutting those darned Europeans and that is okay.

Those were bankruptcy wages. Undercutting implies it's intentional which is not born out of the bankruptcy process.

Ironically, several regionals stepped in and helped fund US Air's emergence from bankruptcy and merger with America West.
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Old 01-09-2019, 03:04 PM   #64  
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Europilots used to think the same back in 07 when a USAIR 330 Captain was making $160/hr and they made double. Itís cyclical.
..or when the US regional FOs were making less than 20k$ a year
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Old 01-09-2019, 11:36 PM   #65  
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Those were bankruptcy wages. Undercutting implies it's intentional which is not born out of the bankruptcy process.

Ironically, several regionals stepped in and helped fund US Air's emergence from bankruptcy and merger with America West.
Yep, including those of us pilots at Air Wisconsin at the time.
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:10 AM   #66  
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News as of this morning:

787 upgrade courses in April, July and October.
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Old 01-10-2019, 04:40 AM   #67  
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Those were bankruptcy wages. Undercutting implies it's intentional which is not born out of the bankruptcy process.

Ironically, several regionals stepped in and helped fund US Air's emergence from bankruptcy and merger with America West.
Undercutting is something big companies do to small companies in order to maintain monopoly. It requires sufficient capital to outlive the rival. Do you really think that the startup Norwegian, with all its financial burdens, is trying to win a war of attrition against the legacies combined? Of course not. What Norwegian is offering is an opportunity for the middle classes of the world to be able to fly internationally much like the LCC's did domestically decades ago. Norwegian is creating jobs and offering TATL flights to people who could not afford them before. This is as noble a cause as any and is something that greatly benefits middle America who is otherwise considered to be less well traveled than their European peers.

Legacies are now creating high density configurated cabins on TATL flights in response to DY. Who is undercutting who?

Last edited by Joachim; 01-10-2019 at 04:59 AM.
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Old 01-11-2019, 09:59 AM   #68  
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Europilots used to think the same back in 07 when a USAIR 330 Captain was making $160/hr and they made double. Itís cyclical.
The difference - and real problem for europilots - is allowing companies like Lufthansa to start airlines flying same/similar routes with same/similar equipment.

Companies like Eurowings, SWISS, Austrian Airlines, Germanwings, etc should all be one single company under one single pilot agreement. The pilots are allowing themselves to be whipsawed by the parent company.

The same can be said for IAG's pilots.

Scope. Get some.
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Old 01-11-2019, 10:02 AM   #69  
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Undercutting is something big companies do to small companies in order to maintain monopoly. It requires sufficient capital to outlive the rival. Do you really think that the startup Norwegian, with all its financial burdens, is trying to win a war of attrition against the legacies combined? Of course not. What Norwegian is offering is an opportunity for the middle classes of the world to be able to fly internationally much like the LCC's did domestically decades ago. Norwegian is creating jobs and offering TATL flights to people who could not afford them before. This is as noble a cause as any and is something that greatly benefits middle America who is otherwise considered to be less well traveled than their European peers.

Legacies are now creating high density configurated cabins on TATL flights in response to DY. Who is undercutting who?
Let us all know when Norwegian starts operating TATL routes that are full year profitable.

I love how you paint a stupid, done before with no success, business model as somehow noble. All it does is waste investment capital and destabilize the entire airline industry.
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Old 01-12-2019, 08:01 AM   #70  
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Originally Posted by Joachim View Post
Undercutting is something big companies do to small companies in order to maintain monopoly. It requires sufficient capital to outlive the rival. Do you really think that the startup Norwegian, with all its financial burdens, is trying to win a war of attrition against the legacies combined? Of course not. What Norwegian is offering is an opportunity for the middle classes of the world to be able to fly internationally much like the LCC's did domestically decades ago. Norwegian is creating jobs and offering TATL flights to people who could not afford them before. This is as noble a cause as any and is something that greatly benefits middle America who is otherwise considered to be less well traveled than their European peers.

Legacies are now creating high density configurated cabins on TATL flights in response to DY. Who is undercutting who?
I would have no issue with your post if Norwegian offered the flights at a fare where they could make a reasonable sustained profit. Clearly that’s not the chase. Had fuel not dropped like a stone the last 60 days we would be reading about the shutdown of the long haul division.
Which legacies are creating long haul high density cabins?
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