Andy

That's great - of course your tendency to exaggerate makes me question the details of this. Speaking of which, where's that TATL city pair that Eurowings is flying with A330s? And please post a reputable source for Eurowings' payscale.

Edit:
Well, let's just say you are talking about Eurowings. However, the A320 scale in this hyperlink indicates that you're stretching the truth quite a bit about A330 pay. Is that 107K/yr for a year 1 CA on their payscale? If so, very deceptive statement by you.
http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs...gs_Europe_GmbH

Denti

Wrong payscale, Eurowings does not operate any widebody aircraft. There are widebody aircraft flying under the Eurowings brand, but they are operated by other companies. A330s by Sunexpress Germany, A340 by contract pilots for Brussels Airlines (the old ryan air style employment, just with the highest taxes in europe: belgian ones). And even the A320s are operated by four different companies under the Eurowings brand: Luftfahrtgesellschaft Walter (LGW), Eurowings Germany, Eurowings Europe, Germanwings (with two different contracts). And yes, i have quite a few friends that followed their beloved A330 type to Sunexpress and now fly at 107k or less for them, 7 off days per month, up to 3 of them downroute.

Denti

Yes, Lufthansa mainline on the old contracts can earn that. But the Lufthansa group has 16 different wholly owned AOCs with wildly different payscales. And the old mainline is shrinking rapidly while the cheap ones are growing even faster. They just move 48 A320s under Lufthansa brand to their subsidiary Cityline for lower terms and conditions, grow the Eurowings brand with the lowest paid pilots (including Sunexpress). And Lufthansa mainly voluntary gave up their scope clause in december 2017 while lowering their own conditions by 15%, all that just to get 8 A340s back from Cityline, exchanging them for 48 A320s, which is kinda ironic.

And yes, i have worked with them and their company council, while serving as an union rep in the same union for another company, seeing the drafts and final contracts. And sadly seeing the disaster unfold that is now the completely infighting lufthansa pilot group. Everyone undermining everyone else and racing each other towards worse and worse terms and conditions. Highest entry pay scale for Eurowings brand A330 captains (operated by Sunexpress Germany) is paypoint 8, which is reached with more than 10.000 PIC experience, more than 5000 on type.

Andy

JFC. Let's make it freaking simple. Stop the stories about retarded europilots and post proof. Payscales and TATL city pairs.

BigfatQ

Dusseldorf - Havana 1/3/19 flight number EW 1189 or SXD 1189. You can check flight aware. Seems like flights they stopped flying SunExpress to the USA since they moved the long range ops away from Cologne. They had a flight to Seattle until September.

What Denti is saying is all correct, no need to get so upset. Lufthansa group is not much better than Norwegian. Outsourcing to save a buck.

dera

This is what people fail to understand here. There is no "CBA" in Europe. The guys making 250k/year are all in old legacy contracts when you still could make money in Europe. The later hires are on different contracts making much less. The "contracts" in Europe have a ton of carveouts, different fleet rules etc.
The starting salary at Finnair, one of the European "legacy" airlines, is around €36k/year including all extras (similar to counting per diem as part of salary). Top range is around €120k/year for senior captains.
For the "what's your source" folks, https://company.finnair.com/fi/toihi...nelentajat/q-a question #33.

Air France, Lufthansa and other traditionally well paying companies don't hire directly any more to the well paying fleets. So whatever pilots are making there now isn't applicable to a new hire.

Cosa Nostra

Exaggerate? If I have please let me know when and where.


Since I can't put you in contact with a current Lufthansa pilot I know.
Here is a quote from pprune. Not Sunexpress (When I jumpseated with that specific LH pilot, Germanwings didn't exist) but Germanwings.
If I find anything more credible, i'll make sure to send it your way.



"Germanwings pilots are LH pilots.
After they are hired the LH pilots are sent to the mainline, Cargo or Germanwings.
Anyway, it is by far not the best paid job in Europe, but the T&C are of course quite good."

NEDude

What one should take from this post is that Norwegian is hardly the only airline guilty of this, and by no means is even a trailblazer. The tactics used by the management of these airlines may not be desirable, but they are a well established reality in the European airline industry. Singling out Norwegian when the same tactic is being used by virtually every other European airline is an exercise in futility. ALPA's anti-Norwegian campaign was a silly waste of time and money, filled with many falsehoods and misleading statements, and did absolutely nothing to stop or slow this European airline business tactic. Like it or not, it is the reality.

captjns

Perhaps the anti Norwegian folks should be banging on the doors of their own airlines as well as ALPA. The 3 legacies are guilty of use it carriers from Asia, Europe, operating out of U.S. airports, out sourcing, in the name of code sharing. Passengers flying on foreign metal, lower labor and operating costs. So.... where are the objections?

One of my favorite screeens shots is... “Who’s operating my flight? You may not like Norwegian, but at least you know the airline.

B757

..Good friend of mine is a A350 captain at Finnair, making over 200k / year..Been there about 30yrs..Starting pay is correct though, very low..

Fly Safe,
B757