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Old 02-04-2021, 12:54 AM   #91  
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What about Lufthansa Cityline flying Lufthansa mainline A340? But nobody complains about Lufthansa
I would if they had a base in FLL and were paying Captains less than $100K a year.
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Old 02-20-2021, 07:58 AM   #92  
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I would if they had a base in FLL and were paying Captains less than $100K a year.
No you wouldn’t.

You’d complain if your were told to. You’d complain if management got your union to do their dirty work for them and initiate a dishonest smearing campaign which in turn would be a perfect red herring for their own inadequacies. You and the other lemmings would rile each other up like chimps in a tribe and ruthlessly bash on the boogeyman you had been provided.

No US based Norwegian Captain made $100k. In fact Cityline and DY contracts are comparable. You guys were bashing good people. A handful of guys were in talks with ALPA to help them unionize. It could have turned into something good eventually. The workers were passionate about building it up trying hard to establish themselves as worthy of an industry standard contract.

Luckily we were all given 6 months of full pay upon termination. We were all offered jobs by a (very) good ALPA carrier and I found myself in class within four weeks. I’m now employed at my ultimate end game (hopefully) employer. Thanks for the ill wishers. You taught me to “smile and wave”

Joke is on you
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Old 02-21-2021, 04:23 PM   #93  
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No you wouldn’t.

You’d complain if your were told to. You’d complain if management got your union to do their dirty work for them and initiate a dishonest smearing campaign which in turn would be a perfect red herring for their own inadequacies. You and the other lemmings would rile each other up like chimps in a tribe and ruthlessly bash on the boogeyman you had been provided.

No US based Norwegian Captain made $100k. In fact Cityline and DY contracts are comparable. You guys were bashing good people. A handful of guys were in talks with ALPA to help them unionize. It could have turned into something good eventually. The workers were passionate about building it up trying hard to establish themselves as worthy of an industry standard contract.

Luckily we were all given 6 months of full pay upon termination. We were all offered jobs by a (very) good ALPA carrier and I found myself in class within four weeks. I’m now employed at my ultimate end game (hopefully) employer. Thanks for the ill wishers. You taught me to “smile and wave”

Joke is on you
Dude, the TATL LCC model is doomed to fail. Which is why Norwegian was doomed to fail.

There have been many attempts at making the TATL LCC model work ever since Laker Airways. It doesn't work because demand and prices aren't there for 9 months a year. The airline needs to have cargo and corporate contracts to make it profitable, which is the only way the legacies make it work.

Norwegian won't fly another passenger TATL ever again. And they may not even emerge from bankruptcy. if they do survive bankruptcy, they will be a much smaller intra European airline.
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Old 02-22-2021, 07:43 AM   #94  
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No you wouldn’t.

You’d complain if your were told to. You’d complain if management got your union to do their dirty work for them and initiate a dishonest smearing campaign which in turn would be a perfect red herring for their own inadequacies. You and the other lemmings would rile each other up like chimps in a tribe and ruthlessly bash on the boogeyman you had been provided.

No US based Norwegian Captain made $100k. In fact Cityline and DY contracts are comparable. You guys were bashing good people. A handful of guys were in talks with ALPA to help them unionize. It could have turned into something good eventually. The workers were passionate about building it up trying hard to establish themselves as worthy of an industry standard contract.

Luckily we were all given 6 months of full pay upon termination. We were all offered jobs by a (very) good ALPA carrier and I found myself in class within four weeks. I’m now employed at my ultimate end game (hopefully) employer. Thanks for the ill wishers. You taught me to “smile and wave”

Joke is on you
Ok, if you say so. My cousin is a mortgage broker in Ft. Lauderdale. He called me one day a few years ago and said “Dude, I thought you guys made more money. “ He said he was doing a mortgage for a 787 Captain that makes $98K. I asked what company the guy worked for and he told me. I had never heard of it, but it was whatever company NAI was using for their FLL base. I explained what was going on.

Why did you take the job in the first place? Did you feel that compensation was reasonable for a 787 pilot? The problem with this industry is that whenever some Airline starts up with crap pay, there is never a shortage of pilots with shiny jet syndrome that take the job, then complain that pay sucks, and then ask ALPA for help. If no one took the job in the first place, the company would be forced to raise pay to a more competitive level. But let’s all feel sorry for the FLL NAI pilots who lost their job and celebrate those that landed on their feet. Sorry, I’ll pass.
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Old 02-22-2021, 12:19 PM   #95  
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Ok, if you say so. My cousin is a mortgage broker in Ft. Lauderdale. He called me one day a few years ago and said “Dude, I thought you guys made more money. “ He said he was doing a mortgage for a 787 Captain that makes $98K. I asked what company the guy worked for and he told me. I had never heard of it, but it was whatever company NAI was using for their FLL base. I explained what was going on.

Why did you take the job in the first place? Did you feel that compensation was reasonable for a 787 pilot? The problem with this industry is that whenever some Airline starts up with crap pay, there is never a shortage of pilots with shiny jet syndrome that take the job, then complain that pay sucks, and then ask ALPA for help. If no one took the job in the first place, the company would be forced to raise pay to a more competitive level. But let’s all feel sorry for the FLL NAI pilots who lost their job and celebrate those that landed on their feet. Sorry, I’ll pass.
If no pilots would have taken the FLL base, then Norwegian would simply have not opened the FLL base. It was a tiny base, and ultimately inconsequential in Norwegian's operation.

It should be noted that the FLL pilots were not "outsourced" pilots, they were Norwegian pilots, included on the Norwegian Pilot Group (NPG) seniority list. They were also on the NAS certificate, not the NAI certificate, and that would not have mattered anyway as all NPG pilots were on one seniority list regardless of which certificate they operated under or to which based they were assigned. They were working under a U.S. based employment contract, just as the LGW pilots were working under a UK employment contract, the CDG pilots were working under a French contract, and the CPH pilots were working under a Danish employment contract. The guys on the NAI certificate were the 737 guys based in SWF and PVD.
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Old 02-22-2021, 03:22 PM   #96  
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If no pilots would have taken the FLL base, then Norwegian would simply have not opened the FLL base. It was a tiny base, and ultimately inconsequential in Norwegian's operation.

It should be noted that the FLL pilots were not "outsourced" pilots, they were Norwegian pilots, included on the Norwegian Pilot Group (NPG) seniority list. They were also on the NAS certificate, not the NAI certificate, and that would not have mattered anyway as all NPG pilots were on one seniority list regardless of which certificate they operated under or to which based they were assigned. They were working under a U.S. based employment contract, just as the LGW pilots were working under a UK employment contract, the CDG pilots were working under a French contract, and the CPH pilots were working under a Danish employment contract. The guys on the NAI certificate were the 737 guys based in SWF and PVD.
Missing the point entirely. It’s one thing working for the devil (regional), but selling your soul (98k as a 787 CA) is a whole different level.
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Old 02-23-2021, 08:39 AM   #97  
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Missing the point entirely. It’s one thing working for the devil (regional), but selling your soul (98k as a 787 CA) is a whole different level.
Norwegian did not pay its captains $98,000 per year. Not that it was much better, but base pay in FLL was $10,000 per month for captains, $7,500 for relief captains, and $5,500 for FOs. So the 98,000 figure was either for a captain after taxes, or it was for a relief captain plus per diem.
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Old 02-23-2021, 09:33 AM   #98  
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Norwegian did not pay its captains $98,000 per year. Not that it was much better, but base pay in FLL was $10,000 per month for captains, $7,500 for relief captains, and $5,500 for FOs. So the 98,000 figure was either for a captain after taxes, or it was for a relief captain plus per diem.
Hey Dr Rocket Scientist, how much is $7500x12? 90K?
Or is a relief captain not a captain in your world?

As far as Norwegian's FL operation, it was a subsidiary of the parent company. Just like all of the other spawns of Norwegian. Norwegian Air Resources and it just filed for Chap 7, thankfully.
Norwegian Air subsidiary Norwegian Air Resources US files Chapter 7 bankruptcy, lays off workers at Fort Lauderdale-Hollywood International Airport - South Florida Business Journal (bizjournals.com)

Norwegian TATL LCC is just another stupid idea that died. Not because of Coronavirus, but because they were selling tickets at a loss in spite of load factors in the high 80s.

Norwegian's motto: 'We're losing money on every ticket sold, but we're making up for it in volume'

With average load factors approaching 90%,they don't even have the excuse that they were just charging teaser fares to stimulate business. More European business acumen in action.
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Old 02-23-2021, 03:14 PM   #99  
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Hey Dr Rocket Scientist, how much is $7500x12? 90K?
Or is a relief captain not a captain in your world?
Hey Dr. Rocket Scientist, no, relief captain is not a captain. A relief captain is not signing for the aircraft, a relief captain is not "P1" and in no place in the world is a Relief Captain or Cruise Captain considered the same as a captain. The reality is that a Relief Captain is, and was treated by Norwegian and every other airline who uses that position, a senior first officer.
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Old 02-23-2021, 10:52 PM   #100  
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Hey Dr. Rocket Scientist, no, relief captain is not a captain. A relief captain is not signing for the aircraft, a relief captain is not "P1" and in no place in the world is a Relief Captain or Cruise Captain considered the same as a captain. The reality is that a Relief Captain is, and was treated by Norwegian and every other airline who uses that position, a senior first officer.
Got it. Pretzel logic.
Nice. No surprise.
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