poopplop

I remember that DL deal included increasing the number of larger two-class RJs and reducing 50 seaters. I'm personally not overly impressed by that since 50 seaters were making their own way out by then and DL wanted more big RJs, but I'm sure there are different opinions on that. I understand the bankruptcy, but no one needs to be praising themselves on scope with basically no progress made. "I dig my heels but happily take the PS checks" isn't exactly heroic.

You are fortunately much more specific in your responses than rickair7777, who would shame other airlines for outsourcing while working for one that does the same. I'm not saying there are no differences between the regional shell game and NAI's operation, but there are definitely similarities. It has been humorous to watch regional pilots stick their nose up at other subcontractors, specifically for subcontracting...

lgaflyer

Getting paid less for flying smaller/less revenue equipment is fine but why are they not on United/Delta/AA seniority? US3 can very well fly E175 or CRJ200 but the pilots ought to be wearing their uniform, badges say United/Delta/AA with ipad/manuals issued by mainlines. And when the time comes, they can simply bid for higher paid equipment

lgaflyer

why does it matter the size of airplane? Outsource is outsource.

fedex/ups outsource widebodies to atlas/western global/etc during peak season. that's outsourcing as well

TransWorld

Sounds like a perfect topic for negotiations on the next contract. I will be interested to hear the outcome. But I won’t hold my breath.

poopplop

Because it’s a win-win for mainline management/senior pilots. The pilots get subsidized wages and PS checks, while management saves money by resetting earned seniority, and by avoiding the mainline union when negotiating pay/benefits to fly the RJs.

But I’m sure Gone Flying knew this before making that misdirecting post, since he already said mainline would need to take a pay cut to end outsourcing and fly the RJs at market rates with their own pilots…. I'm sure he's smart enough to know the difference between “less pay” and “subpar pay”. But I’m not sure why he avoids mentioning this in all of his attempts to justify "less pay" to fly smaller planes… Perhaps an unwillingness to call it what it is?

Hedley

There is a lot more that goes into operating cost than just pilot pay. There is additional pay for flight attendants, mechanics, crew scheduling, support staff, training cost for all employee groups, additional parts inventory, etc. Mainline pilots will not fly rj’s because the total cost of bringing them in house would exceed the benefits. This added expense is why United has avoided adding a new SNB fleet type. It’s just cheaper to sub out. Hopefully as demand increases and the 50 seaters age out, the outsourcing will be reduced.

Gone Flying

they should, but all those airlines convinced bankruptcy judges that those planes need to be flown/maintained/ etc. by outsourced labor. Now management isn’t willing to budge on bringing that flying in house. And the RLA prevents airline unions from doing much about it.

I’d be all for this as would many other mainline pilots, unfortunately I don’t see management being willing to entertain the idea

Gone Flying

outsourcing is not a win for pilots. Period. You are acting like airline unions could waive a magic wand and force all RJ flying in house but choose not to. The railway labor act applies to all airline unions and SEVERLY limits their ability to use labor actions in negotiating. If management is unwilling to budge on scope what would you suggest ALPA do?

I do understand the difference between less pay and subpar pay and I think yours a dumb idea that mainline carriers should accept subpar pay after they spent a decade trying to fix contracts that were decimated. Our regional situation isn’t perfect but it is light years better than what I am seeing in Europe. American eagle and delta connection aren’t flying across the Atlantic but your “regionals” are (or were pre COVID) flying to America. Coming here and throwing stones while allowing outsourcing on a much larger scale along with flag of Convenience schemes is laughable.

poopplop

So basically you're saying that selling mainline pilot jobs is bad not only for pilots, but also harms the other employee groups of the industry as well. We can definitely agree on that.

poopplop

Outsourcing is a win for mainline pilots, particularly those who never flew for the subcontractors. Just because they can't/won't change it doesn't mean they don't benefit from it somehow. Profit sharing checks is an example I've been using for a while now. Their management uses outsourcing for a reason....

I never said it would be easy to change. I know about the RLA.. The fact that you say ALPA can't do anything means that you agree that they haven't. Hence, and once again, the whole "dug my heels PRETTY HARD on scope" self-praise is meaningless. Call things what they are. Make some progress before patting your own back. Pull the thorn from your own eye...