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Old 04-19-2018, 01:45 PM
  #31  
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Everything I hate about Airbus was epitomized by the A-320 flying into the trees in Toulouse and AF447, the 330 with the frozen pitot tubes.

Airbus has engineered pilot intelligence out of its products. This is suitable for pilots lacking intelligence.
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:48 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by mooneymite View Post
Everything I hate about Airbus was epitomized by the A-320 flying into the trees in Toulouse and AF447, the 330 with the frozen pitot tubes.

Airbus has engineered pilot intelligence out of its products. This is suitable for pilots lacking intelligence.
Fairly hypocritical statement. If the airplane was suitable for those lacking intelligence, AF447 would have never happened, same as the bird going into the trees in Toulouse. People fear what they don't understand. Take all the crap away, its just an airplane.
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Jetlife View Post
Fairly hypocritical statement. If the airplane was suitable for those lacking intelligence, AF447 would have never happened, same as the bird going into the trees in Toulouse. People fear what they don't understand. Take all the crap away, its just an airplane.
Neither of those accidents would have taken place in anything other than an Airbus. Pilots have a strong will to survive, but have no chance in an aircraft designed to eliminate them.

But...for many it is an emotional issue. Fords and Chevys. Farmal/John Deere. Redskins/Cowboys. Facts simply don't matter.
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Old 04-19-2018, 02:26 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by mooneymite View Post
Neither of those accidents would have taken place in anything other than an Airbus. Pilots have a strong will to survive, but have no chance in an aircraft designed to eliminate them.

But...for many it is an emotional issue. Fords and Chevys. Farmal/John Deere. Redskins/Cowboys. Facts simply don't matter.
Again, that’s incorrect. Both of those situations had pilots fly perfectly good airplanes into the ground. I suggest reading up on those accidents. Its incorrect and ignorant to peg Airbus at fault in these accidents. Boeing makes a great airplane but to say it’s superior suggests factual data to back that up and not opinion. It’s great to have opinions and preference but it’s disingenuous to say that Airbus is made for crappy pilots or that pilots somehow aren’t in control of it.

This is also a topic for another discussion.
Last edited by Jetlife; 04-19-2018 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:20 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by mooneymite View Post
Neither of those accidents would have taken place in anything other than an Airbus. Pilots have a strong will to survive, but have no chance in an aircraft designed to eliminate them.

But...for many it is an emotional issue. Fords and Chevys. Farmal/John Deere. Redskins/Cowboys. Facts simply don't matter.
Pulling a jet into a steep climb in the upper 30's is going to stall it, no matter who built it. And holding full nose-up control is going to keep it there.
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Old 04-19-2018, 05:03 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Flyfalcons View Post
Pulling a jet into a steep climb in the upper 30's is going to stall it, no matter who built it. And holding full nose-up control is going to keep it the.
The problem would have never gotten to the point it did had the cockpit been equipped with standard controls. Both the captain and the second pilot would have immediately recognized that the relief pilot was holding full back stick. The corrective down elevator would have been applied without a computer averaging the inputs from two pilots.

This accident could have only happened in an Airbus, or an airplane flown by a single idiot. The Airbus dialed out the experience and proficiency of two seasoned Air France pilots.

Only Airbus.
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Old 04-19-2018, 05:50 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by mooneymite View Post
The problem would have never gotten to the point it did had the cockpit been equipped with standard controls. Both the captain and the second pilot would have immediately recognized that the relief pilot was holding full back stick. The corrective down elevator would have been applied without a computer averaging the inputs from two pilots.

This accident could have only happened in an Airbus, or an airplane flown by a single idiot. The Airbus dialed out the experience and proficiency of two seasoned Air France pilots.

Only Airbus.
Eyuuuuuuuuup
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Old 04-19-2018, 06:21 PM
  #38  
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Let's not pretend the whole "one moron pilot outsmarts more experienced pilots" is just an Airbus thing. Plenty of bad things have happened in other types that can be attributed to a single bad pilot in the cockpit.
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Old 04-19-2018, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mooneymite View Post
The problem would have never gotten to the point it did had the cockpit been equipped with standard controls. Both the captain and the second pilot would have immediately recognized that the relief pilot was holding full back stick. The corrective down elevator would have been applied without a computer averaging the inputs from two pilots.

This accident could have only happened in an Airbus, or an airplane flown by a single idiot. The Airbus dialed out the experience and proficiency of two seasoned Air France pilots.

Only Airbus.
I suggest, highly, that you revisit the accident summary and CVR of that accident. You have it wrong, you don’t know the systems on the Airbus and you are assuming.

The Airbus cannot be stalled in normal law, period. They were in alternate law because of the momentary loss of pitot tube information. I say momentary because it came back like 30 seconds later. They then spent the next 4 minutes flying a perfectly good airplane into the ocean because they forgot how to actually fly an airplane. It had NOTHNG to do the controls of the airplane.

The pilots forgot to fly, end of story. The inputs they did would have netted the same result in any airplane with a yoke.
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Old 04-19-2018, 07:13 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by mooneymite View Post

But...for many it is an emotional issue. Fords and Chevys. Farmal/John Deere. Redskins/Cowboys. Facts simply don't matter.
No, it's a comfort thing. The 737 is an uncomfortable, cramped, loud, old, and busy cockpit. The Airbus isn't. If the next product from XYZ is bigger and quieter I'll bid over to that. Simple.
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