Which Fractional?
09-08-2018, 08:21 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,788
Mac is biased because he had to train some Flex transfer pilots when Flex went to vendor training after the merge with Flops. They didn’t do well.
Original Flex training was outstanding, and I have only heard of one former Flex pilot struggling with 121 training, and that was an individual who also struggled with Flex training. The transfers to Flex whom Mac worked with are a different ball of wax. They tended to be about a 1:3 ratio of good egg to WTF in training largely because Flops trained in their planes on empty legs, undoubtedly pencil whipping a good bit given their struggles with V1 cuts, stalls and unusual attitudes, or because they were furloughed guys who hadnet been flying. Also, SOP’s in the Flops culture are largely an impediment to getting the job done. For example, since the merge their have been 6 overruns and two planes damaged or totaled with hail. All of them were operated by two Flops pilots. Sorry, that’s not a coincidence.
Mac has tried to transfer that experience plus time spent with Mom and pop operators into a blanket statement regarding Frac/135 operators. The arrogant “121 is where the real pros are at” attitude is silly. Sorry, worked with you for a while now and haven’t seen a lick of difference. It’s usually an attitude propagated by those who’ve only ever been 121 pilots and never had the pleasure of flying business jets into some wild places with regularity.
Original Flex training was outstanding, and I have only heard of one former Flex pilot struggling with 121 training, and that was an individual who also struggled with Flex training. The transfers to Flex whom Mac worked with are a different ball of wax. They tended to be about a 1:3 ratio of good egg to WTF in training largely because Flops trained in their planes on empty legs, undoubtedly pencil whipping a good bit given their struggles with V1 cuts, stalls and unusual attitudes, or because they were furloughed guys who hadnet been flying. Also, SOP’s in the Flops culture are largely an impediment to getting the job done. For example, since the merge their have been 6 overruns and two planes damaged or totaled with hail. All of them were operated by two Flops pilots. Sorry, that’s not a coincidence.
Mac has tried to transfer that experience plus time spent with Mom and pop operators into a blanket statement regarding Frac/135 operators. The arrogant “121 is where the real pros are at” attitude is silly. Sorry, worked with you for a while now and haven’t seen a lick of difference. It’s usually an attitude propagated by those who’ve only ever been 121 pilots and never had the pleasure of flying business jets into some wild places with regularity.
09-08-2018, 10:48 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 170
Originally Posted by FNGFO
Mac is biased because he had to train some Flex transfer pilots when Flex went to vendor training after the merge with Flops. They didn’t do well.
Original Flex training was outstanding, and I have only heard of one former Flex pilot struggling with 121 training, and that was an individual who also struggled with Flex training. The transfers to Flex whom Mac worked with are a different ball of wax. They tended to be about a 1:3 ratio of good egg to WTF in training largely because Flops trained in their planes on empty legs, undoubtedly pencil whipping a good bit given their struggles with V1 cuts, stalls and unusual attitudes, or because they were furloughed guys who hadnet been flying. Also, SOP’s in the Flops culture are largely an impediment to getting the job done. For example, since the merge their have been 6 overruns and two planes damaged or totaled with hail. All of them were operated by two Flops pilots. Sorry, that’s not a coincidence.
Original Flex training was outstanding, and I have only heard of one former Flex pilot struggling with 121 training, and that was an individual who also struggled with Flex training. The transfers to Flex whom Mac worked with are a different ball of wax. They tended to be about a 1:3 ratio of good egg to WTF in training largely because Flops trained in their planes on empty legs, undoubtedly pencil whipping a good bit given their struggles with V1 cuts, stalls and unusual attitudes, or because they were furloughed guys who hadnet been flying. Also, SOP’s in the Flops culture are largely an impediment to getting the job done. For example, since the merge their have been 6 overruns and two planes damaged or totaled with hail. All of them were operated by two Flops pilots. Sorry, that’s not a coincidence.
As far as transitioning to the 121 world, we have had several that didn't make it thru initial training. The one that I knew was weak to begin with.
09-08-2018, 11:06 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,788
Originally Posted by fooled2x
Flex pilots have also had their share of damaged metal. Options used FS for training in the early days and used to do 6 month rides in the plane for a while.
As far as transitioning to the 121 world, we have had several that didn't make it thru initial training. The one that I knew was weak to begin with.
As far as transitioning to the 121 world, we have had several that didn't make it thru initial training. The one that I knew was weak to begin with.
BTW, for those not paying attention, Flex is now all Flops mgt.
02-02-2024, 01:56 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 313
Aviod Jet Aviation, went through the entire process including accepting offer and starting to get spun up on CBT's etc, to have them come back first day of pay and say "we changed our minds" Regional CP is a real peice of work, AVIOD.
02-03-2024, 05:12 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 509
Originally Posted by GeeWizDriver
If major airline is your end game as you state, in my view you are foolish to believe a fractional is the best way to achieve that goal.
Although some major airlines are hiring from the fractional ranks, there is still a bias against pilots who fly 300-500 hours a year as do most fractional and corporate pilots. Consequently, I would absolutely recommend going the regional route, no matter how distasteful that may be, and I would only select a regional with guaranteed flow through to the main line.
That said, if you insist on going the fractional route, on paper you are more than qualified to be hired at NetJets. The entire fractional segment of the industry is something of a dumpster fire but NetJets is the smallest blaze.
XOJet isn’t awful. The son of a friend is a check airman there and appears to like it. GAMA is a bit of a wild card. Kenny Dichter is a dynamic and slick salesman but I wonder about the financial model and its long-term prospects. Flexjet is simply a crap show that I wouldn’t send my worst enemy to work for.
Just my opinion and worth everything you paid for it.
Although some major airlines are hiring from the fractional ranks, there is still a bias against pilots who fly 300-500 hours a year as do most fractional and corporate pilots. Consequently, I would absolutely recommend going the regional route, no matter how distasteful that may be, and I would only select a regional with guaranteed flow through to the main line.
That said, if you insist on going the fractional route, on paper you are more than qualified to be hired at NetJets. The entire fractional segment of the industry is something of a dumpster fire but NetJets is the smallest blaze.
XOJet isn’t awful. The son of a friend is a check airman there and appears to like it. GAMA is a bit of a wild card. Kenny Dichter is a dynamic and slick salesman but I wonder about the financial model and its long-term prospects. Flexjet is simply a crap show that I wouldn’t send my worst enemy to work for.
Just my opinion and worth everything you paid for it.
Seeing how this thread was resurrected, it’s interesting to flash back to 2018. Boy have times changed, but also stayed the same.
02-06-2024, 10:20 AM
#87
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,702
Originally Posted by TeamSasquatch
Seeing how this thread was resurrected, it’s interesting to flash back to 2018. Boy have times changed, but also stayed the same.
03-15-2024, 09:19 AM
#88
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2024
Posts: 3
Training Contracts
Hi -
I've just gotten to 1800 tt hrs and I am looking to apply to some fractionals. Do all companies such as NetJet , EJM, Flexjet, Flyexclusive have traing contracts? How long are the contracts and if I decied to leave will it be prorated. I dont want to trap myself into someplace I might not be happy with.
TIA
I've just gotten to 1800 tt hrs and I am looking to apply to some fractionals. Do all companies such as NetJet , EJM, Flexjet, Flyexclusive have traing contracts? How long are the contracts and if I decied to leave will it be prorated. I dont want to trap myself into someplace I might not be happy with.
TIA
03-15-2024, 09:41 AM
#89
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2022
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by 818AJM
Hi -
I've just gotten to 1800 tt hrs and I am looking to apply to some fractionals. Do all companies such as NetJet , EJM, Flexjet, Flyexclusive have traing contracts? How long are the contracts and if I decied to leave will it be prorated. I dont want to trap myself into someplace I might not be happy with.
TIA
I've just gotten to 1800 tt hrs and I am looking to apply to some fractionals. Do all companies such as NetJet , EJM, Flexjet, Flyexclusive have traing contracts? How long are the contracts and if I decied to leave will it be prorated. I dont want to trap myself into someplace I might not be happy with.
TIA
03-15-2024, 11:49 AM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 165
Originally Posted by 818AJM
Hi -
I've just gotten to 1800 tt hrs and I am looking to apply to some fractionals. Do all companies such as NetJet , EJM, Flexjet, Flyexclusive have traing contracts? How long are the contracts and if I decied to leave will it be prorated. I dont want to trap myself into someplace I might not be happy with.
TIA
I've just gotten to 1800 tt hrs and I am looking to apply to some fractionals. Do all companies such as NetJet , EJM, Flexjet, Flyexclusive have traing contracts? How long are the contracts and if I decied to leave will it be prorated. I dont want to trap myself into someplace I might not be happy with.
TIA
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