Legacy Airline vs Fractional
07-23-2022, 03:51 AM
#171
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by AntiPeter
Interesting conversation. I left NJA and went to a legacy. I miss many things about NJA. Some things at NJA are better than the airlines, and I’ve found some aspects of the airline experience to be somewhat disappointing.
As far as scheduling goes, I’m away from base less at my airline vs. NJA (even the less work schedules like the 52 & 60 day). When I’m on overnights I have time and ability to do stuff, this was rare at NJA in the recent years.
Commuting to an airline destroys most of what I said above. Does a long-term airline commuter have a better QOL than a NJA pilot? I’m not so sure.
NJA kicked butt regarding vacation, medical insurance, and the FBO experience usually beats almost any airport terminal. FAs are in general a over-dramatic liability.
Airline pilots seem to, on average, have a bit more self worth and respect than the average 135 pilot…but unfortunately ALPA seems about as dysfunctional as NJASAP.
Hindsight being 20/20, if someone had to commute to an airline job…even a major or legacy…I think NJA might be a better option. The commuters I see go to great lengths to commute, they spend large amounts of money, have much more stress and reduced QOL. In most cases it simply isn’t worth it and the NJA scheme of home basing is a better option.
As far as scheduling goes, I’m away from base less at my airline vs. NJA (even the less work schedules like the 52 & 60 day). When I’m on overnights I have time and ability to do stuff, this was rare at NJA in the recent years.
Commuting to an airline destroys most of what I said above. Does a long-term airline commuter have a better QOL than a NJA pilot? I’m not so sure.
NJA kicked butt regarding vacation, medical insurance, and the FBO experience usually beats almost any airport terminal. FAs are in general a over-dramatic liability.
Airline pilots seem to, on average, have a bit more self worth and respect than the average 135 pilot…but unfortunately ALPA seems about as dysfunctional as NJASAP.
Hindsight being 20/20, if someone had to commute to an airline job…even a major or legacy…I think NJA might be a better option. The commuters I see go to great lengths to commute, they spend large amounts of money, have much more stress and reduced QOL. In most cases it simply isn’t worth it and the NJA scheme of home basing is a better option.
07-23-2022, 05:26 AM
#172
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,702
Originally Posted by HeavyD
If you have any friends at NJA, I would have one of them cut and paste this on our MB. We have a lot of newhires that would benefit from the insight of your post.
AB is a DB and I'll be telling every probie I fly with to GET OUT. So will about 35 other pilots I know.
07-23-2022, 05:58 AM
#173
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by GeeWizDriver
Meh....
AB is a DB and I'll be telling every probie I fly with to GET OUT. So will about 35 other pilots I know.
AB is a DB and I'll be telling every probie I fly with to GET OUT. So will about 35 other pilots I know.
07-23-2022, 06:01 AM
#174
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 684
Originally Posted by AntiPeter
The commuters I see go to great lengths to commute, they spend large amounts of money, have much more stress and reduced QOL. In most cases it simply isn’t worth it and the NJA scheme of home basing is a better option.
I remember being stuck in Newark all day going from gate to gate begging for the jump seat only to be told I'm number 2, 3 or 4 in line and the back is oversold. Do I pay for a cab to La Guardia and continue my adventure there or retreat to the Wyndham Garden and try again the next day? That happened to me on several occasions. Once I just stayed in Newark for 3 days until my next rotation started. Did my laundry at the hotel. My family was not amused. Miserable experience.
Last edited by Das Auto; 07-23-2022 at 06:14 AM.
07-24-2022, 12:26 PM
#175
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Retired NJA & AA
Posts: 1,918
During my time at USAirways I commuted from CLT to: PIT, DCA, BOS, BWI, & PHL. Major PITA. Now when I could hold CLT (rare) it was really nice. Even reserve was OK since I was a 20 minute drive to the employee lot. Then in 2005 I started with NetJets. In 2017 I had to medically retire. I have friends from my 1989 new hire class at USAir who went back when recalled.
Had I not had to retire early I might have done better staying with USAirways/American. My friends can hold Captain in CLT now but I don't know if they could have done that in 2017. But then I made Captain at NetJets in 2.5 years so it might be a toss up as far as compensation. Being a line holder in CLT would have been a better lifestyle for sure. Two things I disliked about NetJets were the short layovers (fly for NetJets and see the world from your hotel room window); and the God-Awful early shows. With decent seniority at the airline I could have bid no departures before 9am. So it's a mixed bag. Lineholder in CLT vs. NetJets, lineholder probably wins. But anything else I think NetJets wins. And as a bonus the flying at NetJets is many times more interesting than the airlines. 80% of the time I saw a new airport while on a tour. And that's even after 12 years.
Had I not had to retire early I might have done better staying with USAirways/American. My friends can hold Captain in CLT now but I don't know if they could have done that in 2017. But then I made Captain at NetJets in 2.5 years so it might be a toss up as far as compensation. Being a line holder in CLT would have been a better lifestyle for sure. Two things I disliked about NetJets were the short layovers (fly for NetJets and see the world from your hotel room window); and the God-Awful early shows. With decent seniority at the airline I could have bid no departures before 9am. So it's a mixed bag. Lineholder in CLT vs. NetJets, lineholder probably wins. But anything else I think NetJets wins. And as a bonus the flying at NetJets is many times more interesting than the airlines. 80% of the time I saw a new airport while on a tour. And that's even after 12 years.
07-24-2022, 03:01 PM
#176
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,024
Originally Posted by Das Auto
I agree. My last airline flight home was completely full with 50 standbys trying to get on it. I don't miss those days. Commuting is horrible at the best of times but now with the travel demand and cancellations I can magine that it's a complete nightmare. Hub to hub? Forget it. Living in base for a legacy can be a sweet deal, but then you're limited to the big cities. I'm fully aware that I could make more money and never have to vacuum a carpet at the airlines, but the trade off is worth it for me.
I remember being stuck in Newark all day going from gate to gate begging for the jump seat only to be told I'm number 2, 3 or 4 in line and the back is oversold. Do I pay for a cab to La Guardia and continue my adventure there or retreat to the Wyndham Garden and try again the next day? That happened to me on several occasions. Once I just stayed in Newark for 3 days until my next rotation started. Did my laundry at the hotel. My family was not amused. Miserable experience.
I remember being stuck in Newark all day going from gate to gate begging for the jump seat only to be told I'm number 2, 3 or 4 in line and the back is oversold. Do I pay for a cab to La Guardia and continue my adventure there or retreat to the Wyndham Garden and try again the next day? That happened to me on several occasions. Once I just stayed in Newark for 3 days until my next rotation started. Did my laundry at the hotel. My family was not amused. Miserable experience.
07-24-2022, 05:32 PM
#177
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 201
Originally Posted by GeeWizDriver
Meh....
AB is a DB and I'll be telling every probie I fly with to GET OUT. So will about 35 other pilots I know.
AB is a DB and I'll be telling every probie I fly with to GET OUT. So will about 35 other pilots I know.
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07-24-2022, 06:38 PM
#178
Speed, Power, Accuracy
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: PIC
Posts: 1,702
Originally Posted by hawkerpilot05
Now that is classic. I would feel the same way with how they treated you and the rest of the Gulfstream pilots.
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At this point, I really don't G A S.
07-29-2022, 08:29 PM
#179
Mmmm wine
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Position: A220 FO
Posts: 945
Commuting runs the spectrum. If I needed to commute to another base its a 1.5 hour flight from an area with 3 international airports within 30 minutes. That is a pretty painless commute compared to what some people endure.
At NJA I was often given a boarding group D, middle seat, last minute ticket with a 2-3 leg commute home across the country. I would take commuting at my airline over NJA airline travel to and from, any day of the week. Commuter clauses are getting better, airlines are adopting positive space commutes on company metal and those benefits will only get better as airlines compete for applicants.
At NJA I was often given a boarding group D, middle seat, last minute ticket with a 2-3 leg commute home across the country. I would take commuting at my airline over NJA airline travel to and from, any day of the week. Commuter clauses are getting better, airlines are adopting positive space commutes on company metal and those benefits will only get better as airlines compete for applicants.
07-30-2022, 08:09 PM
#180
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2018
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by MinRest
Commuting runs the spectrum. If I needed to commute to another base its a 1.5 hour flight from an area with 3 international airports within 30 minutes. That is a pretty painless commute compared to what some people endure.
At NJA I was often given a boarding group D, middle seat, last minute ticket with a 2-3 leg commute home across the country. I would take commuting at my airline over NJA airline travel to and from, any day of the week. Commuter clauses are getting better, airlines are adopting positive space commutes on company metal and those benefits will only get better as airlines compete for applicants.
At NJA I was often given a boarding group D, middle seat, last minute ticket with a 2-3 leg commute home across the country. I would take commuting at my airline over NJA airline travel to and from, any day of the week. Commuter clauses are getting better, airlines are adopting positive space commutes on company metal and those benefits will only get better as airlines compete for applicants.
United did not offer positive space commuting to the pilots in their latest TA, so that was an empty offer. No company is going to do that with demand as high as it is right now.
As far as boarding groups, talking to the gate agent will allow you to board in pre-board or one of the first groups 99/100 times.
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