Das Auto

Again, we don't have any Ultras or Beechjets. It's like saying I don't want to fly for Allegiant because the MD80 sucks.

There's no question that 121 flying is less labor intensive and potentially more rewarding from a financial standpoint, but is the commute or move to a hub worth it? For some yes, for me no.

I've done 121, 135, 91k and medevac. Pulled lav cartridges in a King Air, loaded bags in an XL and loaded very large people into a Turbo Commander at 3am. For me the pros and cons favor private aviation.

GeeWizDriver

Allegiant no longer flies the MD 80. Jusss sayin.

Some of us are where we are by choice, some by circumstance. The important thing for the younger folks in the audience is that you have lots of choices right now and good for you. Some of us older farts weren't as lucky due to industry timing and didn't have much choice when we had to feed our families. That's the way of life. Hardest part is, you won't know if you made the right choice until the game is over.

Das Auto

That's exactly my point, just like NJ no longer has Ultras or Beechjets so it's an irrelevant argument.

Now if I lived in Phoenix I would be very tempted to put in my app with Southwest, but I don't and I won't. Different strokes for different folks. The commute for me was a nightmare and moving to a hub didn't work either. Upgraded and ended up commuting from a place I didn't want to live to a place that was a nightmare to commute to. Throwing 5 or 6 bags on a hot day is less painful than that mess.

Again, everyone's personal situation is different, but I'm not going to put myself or my family through that again just to avoid vacuuming a carpet every once in a while.

AA717driver

Can I come work for your airline? Because what you said doesn’t remotely look like AA. Cold/hot planes because the jetway air doesn’t work or they don’t have sufficient ramp staffing to hook it up. Can only trade a 4 day for another 4 day over the same footprint cause scheduling has all your trips redder (meaning your trip cannot possibly be covered by any of the 35% of the seniority list that are on reserve on your plane). Have to say mother-may-I to go to the lav. “Oh, yeah, we aren’t done with our service can you wait 20 minutes?”

Senior and working Christmas? Ooohhh, yeah, sorry about that. If you had a Ph.D in computer science, you’d know why that algorithm was buried in PBS.

Merging with JetBlue? Yeah, we’re gonna give them a sweet deal and stick all their captains ahead of you because if they’re unhappy, they might vote APA out and vote ALPA in.

4 day trips that are built to 8 hours of flying and 12 hour duty days. If they can’t fly you 8 hours, they’ll sit you for 3 just to you’ll do a 12 hour duty day.

The money can be good if you work the system. The retirement is awesome—16% pre-tax to your self-directed plan. Wide body flying is good (pre-Covid) if that’s what you’re into.

My point is, yes, majors are better than 135/frac in most cases. But, it certainly isn’t what it was in pre-deregulation and pre-9/11 and pre-Covid… Management works night and day to wring every last cent out of you and the union is powerless to stop them (Railway Labor Act needs to go.). I’m not bitter—I’ve had an awesome career but this is the same thing I tell the new people or those considering AA. As long as you go in with eyes wide open, you can deal with the pitfalls.

TC

WHACKMASTER

17 years to go and I am THOROUGHLY over the up and down bologna. I average 2.5 legs per day. I had a taste of medium - long haul flying for a brief period and still fantasize about it.

biigD

The good news is that the job market is such that folks can do whatever they want. I flew 91/135 before the airlines and really enjoyed everything except the (lack of) schedule, and the fracs fix that problem. Airline flying is less work but I don't think doing the CIP thing is really all that big a deal. Someone mentioned fewer legs per day, and I'll add that as I get older being home becomes a bigger and bigger priority too. I'd absolutely consider a place like NetJets if faced with a career-long commute, but one nice thing about living in base at my 121 gig is being able to take advantage of being a lazy bastard and just not working much. No more than three days/two nights in a stretch and fewer than 100 days for the year is my kind of flying.

Flyfalcons

The drama in here rivals what Netflix is releasing. I especially like the former Delta pilots asking the younger pilot if he wants to be doing this at 65, while said former Delta pilot is doing this at 65+, following a career at, um, Delta.

AntiPeter

I cringe at the hostility of the FAs and other forward facing employees at an airline I’m familiar with. I wish it was more like NJA.

I saw an employee help some pax on an airline the other day, it was a NJA pilot commuting home.

The behavior of many a 121 airline to their customers is abhorrent.

There are really good things about NJA and 121 majors/legacy. There are also bad things about both.

Some things at NJA are better, some things at 121 are better.

15 years ago NJA was unpleasant, no contest. Now NJA is a contender. That’s good news.

NJA is a respectable career choice as are the 121 majors. We are all looking forward to retirement, well except for the elderly at NJA.

FNGFO

Because you don’t know you backside from a hole in the ground.

I worked with several former Delta pilots who had the double whammy of age 60 and their retirements getting jacked with in bankruptcy. Imagine spending your first 20 years making that big money in the military while building up what retirement that yields from the late 60’s to the 80’s. Then going to Delta for another 20 years, having your final 5 highest money making years not available and then your pension reduced by 60% in the bankruptcy. You now have a paltry military retirement and less than half of your pension from a job worked half a career due to that military service.

You do realize that the Admiral’s club hasn’t always been the steamroller it is now right? It’s easy to throw shade at those guys for “not being able to retire on Delta money”, but those were different times with different thoughts about retirement income than we have now. One or two of them kept flying because they loved it. Another had saved money on the side and had a like $2M in the bank. That sounds like a lot, but it’s not when you’re planning to live off of it for the next 30 years.

It’s only far fetched drama if you don’t know what you’re talking about.

Flyfalcons

Hey they can throw every sob story they can at you, but if one is pulling in both military retirement and PBGC retirement after a career at Delta, and can't retire, and have to degrade themselves to flying at a frac, then they made some impressively poor choices in their lives. Yes we have them at NJA too. They always have a reason......