AntiPeter

Are you closer to understanding the differences? Where do you live and commute? What are your life goals?

There is no right or wrong, yes or no answer. All we have is time, all of these jobs pay enough. The question, the only question, is how do you want to spend the remaining time you have on planet Earth?

Eudaimonia

Rawhide,

I’m ex LHS widebody majors (albeit overseas ones) with 18 yr to go. Came to a fractional last year. Absolutely love it, absolutely no desire to fly Pt. 121 here, though as others have pointed out there’s no right/wrong & it’s really a personal decision.

All the best with your decision.

Das Auto

I heard the horror stories but have yet to spend a tour with someone I couldn't tolerate. Of course the differing political opinions will come out at some point, but most people respect each others view points. I did fly with an older gentleman who was a bit of a grump but he has since retired and was actually a nice guy once he took his tie off.

It's the constant negativity that wears me down. I'll go out on a limb and say that its more prevalent in the 121 world. Most of the guys that I've flown with here at NetJets have a positive attitude, but private or commercial, pilots by nature will find something to complain about.

symbian simian

ACMI/91K/121, about 8 years each. How much you love your job is 75% you, 20% your colleagues, 5% your company. If you are unhappy flipping burgers while in college you have the potential to be unhappy as a DL A350 PIC doing a GSWC on a weekday in September.

AntiPeter

https://www.americancraftbeer.com/be...ewing-sky-hag/

“She hates you and her job. But, she gets to go to Paris twice a month. This beer's as bitter as she is.”

cactusmike

Real nice video. I enjoyed it quite a bit. You have a nice touch doing these and it shows your professionalism. You would be an asset to any company.

symbian simian

That's just replaced polygamyporter as my favorite beer name

Boeing Aviator

Some of this may have been discussed already but here’s my two cents for what it’s worth. Also I want to state up front I hope I don’t come off as some arrogant spoiled rotten united pilot. That’s not my intent and trust me, I thank my lucky stars everyday I am where I am. Additionally, I accept its no more then pure luck that I am where I am in terms of seniority and how my career ended up the way it did. It easily could have turned out completely opposite. As you all know this industry is a total crap shoot.

That all being said. As a fairly senior 777 CA at a legacy my pay, quality of life both at home but just as importantly at work far exceeds that of any fractional (again my opinion). Most of this is due to a strong union and contract that has been constantly tweaked and amended and improved over decades. I also believe flying a widebody for a ME3 carrier or ACMI in no way compares to a US legacy. However, I would honestly say that flying for Fedex or UPS exceeds flying at United or the other legacies in terms of overall pay, retirement and quality of life.

I’ll try to keep my post fairly short.

We have many (widebody and narrow body) pilots who choose to chase the money. Many widebody CA’s earn over 500K (plus 16% company 401K contributions) I fly with some senior FO’s who earn north of 400K. This largely due to soft time, DH and contractual trip & duty riggs. That’s why many of the senior widebody FO’s bypass narrow body CA’s and even earn more then 757/767 CA’s and wait till their senior enough to jump the garbage bag and upgrade on a widebody as line holders (as they make more then reserve widebody CA’s).

If your looking for max time off on a widebody you can hold up to 18 to 20 days off in a non vacation month. In a vacation month up to 24 or more days off (again maximizing days off and not pay)

At UAL after 11 years you get 5 weeks of vacation and after 25 years 6 weeks of vacation. We can use vacation months to either increase days off or to maximize pay, a pilots individual choice. So for many of us we have a vacation month almost half the year.

Quality of life at work. Widebody mostly one leg a day. Half the time getting paid to sit in FC seat and watch movies or sleeping
in a bunk (dozing for dollars). Example on longer flights you can easily get a 6 to 7 hour break. So really the time your actually in the flight deck is like flying a transcon. Most layovers at 4 or 5 star downtown hotels. Average layover 24 to 36 hours some 72 hours or more. The long ones are good for soft time (earning money to sit and not fly) . Soft time keeps your FAR times down so you can earn extra money if you choose. DH at 100% pay in FC. Even shorter domestic layovers (mostly) get private town car or bus to hotel not airport hotel vans.

From what I’ve read on here and heard directly from friends who fly for fractionals. The only real advantage is the positive space tickets to and from your home. I live in base so that wouldn’t matter to me but most legacy pilots do commute so that is a definitely a huge advantage.

Thats really all I see as an advantage at a fractional. Fractional pilots work their tails off in all the non flying duties, plus multiple leg long duty days. Airline pilots are spoiled & spoon fed. We turn left when we get to work and work and turn right when we leave, no extra duties. When I hear of an average of 14 hour layovers and long duty days for 7 to 15 straight days at the fractionals, I honestly I get nauseous. Sure as a young kid building time no big deal. But after 20 plus years, no thank you that’s too much work and a very low quality of life at work in my opinion.

I get that widebody flying isn’t for everyone. Senior narrowbody flying at United, you can fly one leg transcons or very productive turns or even very productive Caribbean turns (especially if you live in base) and get lots of days off or pick up an earn extra money. I know pilots in my seniority range who make a lot more then I do picking up premium pay narrow body trips.

Anyway if you have 20 or more years in my opinion your selling yourself way to short if you go to a fractional vs a legacy.

Boeing Aviator

Can’t believe I omitted the following in my previous post above. This obviously excludes Net Jets that not only has a union but a strong union and very good contract.

Having started my 35 year airline career at a non union carrier, later to a weak independent union and now to a strong national union but most importantly a strong local unit of the national union.

I couldn’t imagine working anywhere for 20 or 20 plus years at a non union company or even with a union but essentially a weak union.

Don’t look at any current management (senior and middle), pay, working conditions etc. at any fractional. Managements come and go, acquisitions & mergers happen. Everything about your very good or great fractional (again Net Jets excluded) today could be gone tomorrow, a few years from today or in 15 years. What if your told 10 years from now to move to XYZ or your job is gone?


If your at a company for 20 or more years all you have is your seniority. Forget about a seniority system vs a merit upgrade system. What about fired at will (except for discrimination) vs. having to have just cause (a much more difficult standard to meet at union carrier with a good contract). What about furloughs out of seniority or just being let go permanently, maybe out of seniority at a non union flying job. What about massive pay cuts and or significant degradations of quality of life at work and or home compared to todays fractionals?

The whole great fractional job today could turn 180 degrees opposite in a year or 15 years from now. That’s for too much period of a career with no legal, enforceable contractual protections. Way too many career unknowns to gamble with. I believe for someone with 20 or more years to go especially if already at a legacy today.

jtf560

14 hour average overnights is not the case at the fractionals unless you are on the long range fleets. The current average is probably around 11 hours.