Ultralight

I've done both and prefer part 135, but each to their own. There is certainly the potential to earn more money in the 121 world, but for me fractional type flying is more interesting and enjoyable.

CEFO

It's not good for a small minority. For most of us it's a good place to hang your hat until that dream job comes along. Most of the people who have left recently have gone to the majors and awesome 91 jobs.

Hawker Driver

Though I'm thankful where I am now, it was not always so. 135 has a lousy reputation because, for many operators, the bottom line cannot be attained w/o the exploitation of its own workforce:

Broken promises
Canceled vacations
Being threatened repeatedly with a job loss if you don't report for work on days off.
Being blamed for making the right safety decisions when it costs the company $.
Being told one thing in ground school when it comes to duty time, & another when a $40,000 charter is on the line.
Being paid below industry wage.

I could have been a Global/Gulfstream pilot long ago with a certain 135 operator, however the treatment from management was so bad an upgrade to the Space Shuttle would have made no difference. That combined with the fact that this Papa had seen enough tears stream down his sons eyes.

The following is thread creep. Sorry....

At almost 50, the 121 ship has sailed although I was scheduled to go to 747-400 school years ago with a now defunct cargo carrier. At my age, with a family & handicapped child, the prospect of being put on the street "when" the next world event occurs is a risk I'm not willing to take.

HD

biigD

This is thread drift too, but IMO there needs to be a critical mass of airplanes on the certificate for a 135 operator to make money while still giving the pilots any semblance of QOL. I worked for an operator that paid us fairly, didn't push us as far as safety, and tried whenever possible to help us out. But at the end of the day it was still a one crew per airframe deal, and when the plane had an opportunity to generate revenue, we needed to be available to fly it. That's fine when you're single/young, or trying to rack up jet PIC, but I found it's just not sustainable over the long haul.

Of course, XOJET has the size where I think profitability and good QOL for the pilots might be attainable. I wish you guys all the best, and I hope the new management can turn it into a career place to be.

1Wingnut

Does XOJET let you know in advance when you come out of rest, or do they just consider you rested as long as you didn't fly in the last 10 hours? For example, if you finish a trip at 10pm, are you fair game for another trip at 6 am? Or do you come out of rest at a certain time, that you know in advance? Or lets say you finish a trip at 10pm, and then call you with a trip at 2pm the next day - are you on the hook until 4am? My question is, does XOJET abide by the component of the rest requirements that the rest period needs to be "prospective"?

CEFO

Ahhhh, good question. This is one of those new improvements. Of course LEGALITY speaking the company only has to give you the FAR minimum. But as far as company guideline (and common sense) addressing fatigue issues inherent with on demand flying we use risk system of a sort that tells SOC how tired you are. If you need more rest than 10 hours you let SOC know at the end of the day prior, if you have been getting beaten up they are probably looking at if there's a way to ease off on you (sometimes there is not short of calling fatigued). There's the occasional "you said you wanted 15 hours but we can only give you 13 hours tonight but I've shortened your day tommorrow. Type scenario". The bugs are still being worked out but it's definitely a step toward a generative safety culture.

An example where logic and sense prevail over legality:
0600 duty on in TEB for 0700 wheels up
Arrive VNY at 1000 and duty off at 1100 and go to the hotel. Say both live on the west coast and probably won't be thinking about bed until 2200ish. Considering only the minimum rest requirements they are legal for a redeye even though they haven't slept since 0200PST that morning. If you don't actually think about what you are going to be doing in 10 hours (sleeping, at the gym, having dinner etc) it sets you (and it makes everyone look bad) up for calling in fatigued. The company is trying to head the issue of calling in fatigued off before a trip is booked by knowing who is rested enough for the trip. Most of the time it works pretty well IMO.

1Wingnut

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question - I appreciate it! Rest/Duty is one of those issues in the charter world where there are as many takes on the right way to handle it as there are FSDO's. I have worked for cargo operators that will call you for immediate dispatch anytime 24/7 as long as you had 10 hours after your last flight. A "rolling rest period", I have heard this called. I have also worked places where you fly whatever is scheduled in advance no matter the time, but for pop-ups, you don't have to show before 8am unless you knew about them at least 10 hours prior, before you entered rest.

If I understand your answer, XOJET is somewhere in between these styles? They can conceivably call and send you on a trip at any time, as long as you have had at least 10 hours since your last duty-off, but they try to make allowances for human factors - am I restating this correctly? Like in your example, the pilot maybe woke up at 4:30 am for his TEB departure, and came off duty at 11am California time. It is pretty hard to go to bed for 8 hours sleep at 11am. So yes, they could send you out again at 9pm, but try not to, so pilots won't be declining trips. So would it be fair to say they are doing "rolling-rest", but giving the pilots some leeway for human factors? In other words, there is not a specific time you go "on-call" when on the road, right? You are pretty much continuously on call, as long as you were not on duty in the last 10 hours (with some respect given to human factors, as you mentioned)? Thanks again - there are a lot of differing takes on this subject, and I am interested in how it is handled at XOJET.

thepointyend

XOJET operates under the "rolling rest" policy. We just have a fairly new system in place, as CEFO mentioned, that helps reduce the chances of flying fatigued. The reality is you can go wheels up out of TEB at 0700, land in PBI at 0930, duty off at 1030 and be legal to fly 10 hours later by their book.

That said, the safety culture here is changing and in order for the company to try and do that to a crew they have to jump through certain levels of approval before they can try to task you with that trip. I also know of crews who have been asked to do such trips within the last few months and turned them down with no repercussions.

1Wingnut

I've heard there have been some good changes there, since Brad Stewart came on board. Are there are other changes in the culture you could mention that may not be common knowledge outside the company? Also, I've heard rumors of new Challengers on order - it that correct? What is the fleet composition at this point? The Hawkers went away, right? So now Citation X and Challenger 300? Or is there something else also? Thanks again for the fresh info - I have been reading the forums, but a lot of the info is somewhat dated.

IFlyFL410

Not to stir the pot too much or try to are anyone upset, but word around here at Flexjet is that Ricci has his sites set on you guys, especially your 300's. Perhaps an announcement later this week during Ricci's quarterly conference call. Just telling you what we're hearing...