Executive Airshare
03-25-2015, 06:44 PM
#1821
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: Aeronca Champ/Back
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by jetboy
Tango, I'm not sure how long you've worked at Air Share, but my initial reaction to your post was "what did you expect?" I'm certain you knew the aircraft types and pay scales before you took the job, right? Every aircraft in their fleet is single-pilot certified except the Lear 45s. If you don't think you have the skillset to fly the planes single-pilot then why did you sign up? It seems like all that training is meant for a very good reason.
And what do you expect to upgrade to? Everything they operate is arguably an entry level aircraft. If you're the guy looking for mids and large cabin, you won't find it at Air Share, so why even worry about upgrades? Based on all the hiring going on, I'm sure a couple thousand B300 turbine time will be just as valuable on the market as a few hundred in a VLJ.
As far as pay goes, if you don't like it why are you staying? My assumption is they have you locked into some training contract, but those can be easily managed with a good negotiation at another company. And if you can add value to your role, then people will pay you more. You just have to find the right place and be willing to put in a few years of grunt work.
As for your other concerns, there are some things that all candidates need to consider:
1. This company's "regional" model allows it to keep its customers' costs low by the mere fact that its bases are geographically located within 3-4 hours’ drive of each other (except BUF). Again, I ask "what did you expect" when it comes to travel between bases? Every company with multiple bases will have commutes. You should have easily determined that there was no airline service between MCI and TUL, or ICT and MCI. On the flip side, you would think they'd recognize employee cost savings when they're willing to drive, and reward you for that, but maybe that's not the case.
2. As for your 10 or 12 day rotation, if you're looking for time at home with the wife and kids, why did you choose a fractional? You're not going to find that QOL at any fractional, whether it's Air Share, Netjets, or Flops. The question I'd ask is are you flying all of those days? If so, try to stay healthy on the road, eat well, and use it to your advantage and build the time. If you're not flying, then request a different domicile where there's more activity. If what you say is true, it really doesn't matter where you live since they've got you on the road for your entire tour, right?
3. On the topic of an optimizer, every medium to large airline uses some sort of automation to schedule its flights. They would be stupid not to. It's not possible to handle the volume otherwise without an unsustainable amount of overhead. Don't blame your dispatchers for schedule changes; that's what their job is, and they can't control when a customer books a flight. Remember, this is not 121 stuff. And if you think your pay is low, why not ask one of your dispatchers what they think of their pay? I bet you'd find that the demands placed on them are every bit as much as you, and they're making considerably less per hour than any pilot (yes, they do get to sleep in their own bed at night). That said, I really wonder if they pay their dispatchers more than $12-14/hr? Maybe the problem is they don't pay people enough to care, so therefore they don't want to perform, and unfortunately the poop usually falls on the pilots, especially when it comes to manipulating a crew schedule.
But, seriously, how much time have you spent in their OCC? Have you interacted (and I mean truly interacted, and not just gone in to b.s.) and asked to see how/why they change your plans? I'm wondering if they implement this as part of your IOE/recurrent training. Maybe you could suggest that.
4. And, not to continue the beat down, but when it comes to management's scrutiny of your expenses or belittling your questions, again I ask, "what did you expect?" Your COO came from Colgan (that's a discussion worthy of a forum all on its own), your DO is from American Airlines, and the OCC manager came from Pinnacle and Mesa (how ironic he used to work with the COO). Unfortunate as it may be, you're essentially working for a regional. I guess you should consider yourself lucky not to have to live at a crash pad for 10 nights, although I'm sure the COO has thought about it. Just be careful when they start saying your travel doesn't count as duty time. Read your history books if you don't know what I mean.
5. HR - now that's a funny one. Toys R Us. Enough said, other than I'm sorry.
6. Simply based on the fleet types and your allegation that they are "constantly training new hire SICs that come from flight instruction," it would appear Air Share is an hours-building stepping stone into bigger equipment at other companies, nothing more nothing less. That's not necessarily a bad thing as long as it's also a safe operation. Use it to your advantage, build some time and get out.
There are 2 things you can guarantee about fractionals; you work max duty days and you're constantly on the road, hence why Teamsters now run Netjets and Flops. The bottom line is do your due diligence on the places you want to work and the people who run them. All of this information is easily accessible with a little google kung fu. This forum is great for that. But recognize when to blame and when to take action for yourself. Companies are hiring, but the job industry is still tough out there, and sometimes you have to take a little less now to gain a little more later. You shouldn't accept any job at any company without digging for information on your own, and if you don't, then there's no one else to blame but yourself.
And what do you expect to upgrade to? Everything they operate is arguably an entry level aircraft. If you're the guy looking for mids and large cabin, you won't find it at Air Share, so why even worry about upgrades? Based on all the hiring going on, I'm sure a couple thousand B300 turbine time will be just as valuable on the market as a few hundred in a VLJ.
As far as pay goes, if you don't like it why are you staying? My assumption is they have you locked into some training contract, but those can be easily managed with a good negotiation at another company. And if you can add value to your role, then people will pay you more. You just have to find the right place and be willing to put in a few years of grunt work.
As for your other concerns, there are some things that all candidates need to consider:
1. This company's "regional" model allows it to keep its customers' costs low by the mere fact that its bases are geographically located within 3-4 hours’ drive of each other (except BUF). Again, I ask "what did you expect" when it comes to travel between bases? Every company with multiple bases will have commutes. You should have easily determined that there was no airline service between MCI and TUL, or ICT and MCI. On the flip side, you would think they'd recognize employee cost savings when they're willing to drive, and reward you for that, but maybe that's not the case.
2. As for your 10 or 12 day rotation, if you're looking for time at home with the wife and kids, why did you choose a fractional? You're not going to find that QOL at any fractional, whether it's Air Share, Netjets, or Flops. The question I'd ask is are you flying all of those days? If so, try to stay healthy on the road, eat well, and use it to your advantage and build the time. If you're not flying, then request a different domicile where there's more activity. If what you say is true, it really doesn't matter where you live since they've got you on the road for your entire tour, right?
3. On the topic of an optimizer, every medium to large airline uses some sort of automation to schedule its flights. They would be stupid not to. It's not possible to handle the volume otherwise without an unsustainable amount of overhead. Don't blame your dispatchers for schedule changes; that's what their job is, and they can't control when a customer books a flight. Remember, this is not 121 stuff. And if you think your pay is low, why not ask one of your dispatchers what they think of their pay? I bet you'd find that the demands placed on them are every bit as much as you, and they're making considerably less per hour than any pilot (yes, they do get to sleep in their own bed at night). That said, I really wonder if they pay their dispatchers more than $12-14/hr? Maybe the problem is they don't pay people enough to care, so therefore they don't want to perform, and unfortunately the poop usually falls on the pilots, especially when it comes to manipulating a crew schedule.
But, seriously, how much time have you spent in their OCC? Have you interacted (and I mean truly interacted, and not just gone in to b.s.) and asked to see how/why they change your plans? I'm wondering if they implement this as part of your IOE/recurrent training. Maybe you could suggest that.
4. And, not to continue the beat down, but when it comes to management's scrutiny of your expenses or belittling your questions, again I ask, "what did you expect?" Your COO came from Colgan (that's a discussion worthy of a forum all on its own), your DO is from American Airlines, and the OCC manager came from Pinnacle and Mesa (how ironic he used to work with the COO). Unfortunate as it may be, you're essentially working for a regional. I guess you should consider yourself lucky not to have to live at a crash pad for 10 nights, although I'm sure the COO has thought about it. Just be careful when they start saying your travel doesn't count as duty time. Read your history books if you don't know what I mean.
5. HR - now that's a funny one. Toys R Us. Enough said, other than I'm sorry.
6. Simply based on the fleet types and your allegation that they are "constantly training new hire SICs that come from flight instruction," it would appear Air Share is an hours-building stepping stone into bigger equipment at other companies, nothing more nothing less. That's not necessarily a bad thing as long as it's also a safe operation. Use it to your advantage, build some time and get out.
There are 2 things you can guarantee about fractionals; you work max duty days and you're constantly on the road, hence why Teamsters now run Netjets and Flops. The bottom line is do your due diligence on the places you want to work and the people who run them. All of this information is easily accessible with a little google kung fu. This forum is great for that. But recognize when to blame and when to take action for yourself. Companies are hiring, but the job industry is still tough out there, and sometimes you have to take a little less now to gain a little more later. You shouldn't accept any job at any company without digging for information on your own, and if you don't, then there's no one else to blame but yourself.
Also, you don't know what you are talking about. 1. People there worry about upgrade because the jets PAY more! 2.Airshare doesn't use dispatchers, they use glorified schedulers and the pilots do ALL of the flight planning...along with many other things. And who cares what dispatchers get paid anyway. Weird thought. 3.Netjets pilots dumped teamsters years ago. Work on your "google kungfu"
Tango did a good job of giving potential applicants an account of life at Airshare. You just confused Everybody. Your rant was like a drunk history lesson. I hope I never have to fly with you.
03-26-2015, 04:47 AM
#1822
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: Upright
Posts: 120
Originally Posted by jeflies
To be fair, we have some really stellar FOs on the Phenoms that impress me every time I fly with them.
03-30-2015, 01:44 PM
#1823
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 51
I think as professionals we all realize that policies are there for a reason, and they must be followed to keep order and control the wild ones that would go nuts without guidance.
It's the method of which they go about it here that rubs a lot of people wrong. As someone said earlier, they're jumping over dollars to save pennies.
It's a pretty well known fact across the company that a certain someone mentioned earlier uses a company airplane for personal commutes, on the company dime. But make sure you drink water at lunch, because having that sprite on the side just exceeded budget and you'll get a phone call. I guess HRs suggestion of eating at Mcdonalds is how we'll need to do it in some cities now. No thanks, I don't want to die when im 40.
Per diem would be a great solution to everything and has been suggested, but they don't want to because it will cost them a few more bucks per day. So instead they invest the man hours into scolding pilots like children for spending an extra dollar here and there.
We certainly don't have it terrible here. It could be a LOT worse, but myself and a few others have been at the game long enough to know when things are trending in a bad direction. The penny pinching will continue, the policies will continue to become more ridiculous, and management will continue to become more disconnected from the pilots. In other words, the revolving door will continue to spin.
It's the method of which they go about it here that rubs a lot of people wrong. As someone said earlier, they're jumping over dollars to save pennies.
It's a pretty well known fact across the company that a certain someone mentioned earlier uses a company airplane for personal commutes, on the company dime. But make sure you drink water at lunch, because having that sprite on the side just exceeded budget and you'll get a phone call. I guess HRs suggestion of eating at Mcdonalds is how we'll need to do it in some cities now. No thanks, I don't want to die when im 40.
Per diem would be a great solution to everything and has been suggested, but they don't want to because it will cost them a few more bucks per day. So instead they invest the man hours into scolding pilots like children for spending an extra dollar here and there.
We certainly don't have it terrible here. It could be a LOT worse, but myself and a few others have been at the game long enough to know when things are trending in a bad direction. The penny pinching will continue, the policies will continue to become more ridiculous, and management will continue to become more disconnected from the pilots. In other words, the revolving door will continue to spin.
03-30-2015, 04:04 PM
#1825
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by tiredcfi
Agreed. Except the IOE program for a new SIC is minimal at best.
And it's worse for upgrading PICs. Minimal training on things like flight planning, performance, and airworthiness. It's a joke to basically throw someone in the left seat to figure that stuff out on their own with no dispatch office or anything like that to back them up. If you don't come into it with a solid background, good luck to you.
03-30-2015, 04:17 PM
#1826
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by jetboy
This company's "regional" model allows it to keep its customers' costs low by the mere fact that its bases are geographically located within 3-4 hours’ drive of each other (except BUF). Again, I ask "what did you expect" when it comes to travel between bases?
Originally Posted by jetboy
As for your 10 or 12 day rotation, if you're looking for time at home with the wife and kids, why did you choose a fractional? You're not going to find that QOL at any fractional, whether it's Air Share, Netjets, or Flops. The question I'd ask is are you flying all of those days? If so, try to stay healthy on the road, eat well, and use it to your advantage and build the time. If you're not flying, then request a different domicile where there's more activity. If what you say is true, it really doesn't matter where you live since they've got you on the road for your entire tour, right?
Originally Posted by jetboy
And if you think your pay is low, why not ask one of your dispatchers what they think of their pay? I bet you'd find that the demands placed on them are every bit as much as you, and they're making considerably less per hour than any pilot (yes, they do get to sleep in their own bed at night).
03-30-2015, 07:57 PM
#1827
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 346
Originally Posted by JungleJim
^^This
And it's worse for upgrading PICs. Minimal training on things like flight planning, performance, and airworthiness. It's a joke to basically throw someone in the left seat to figure that stuff out on their own with no dispatch office or anything like that to back them up. If you don't come into it with a solid background, good luck to you.
And it's worse for upgrading PICs. Minimal training on things like flight planning, performance, and airworthiness. It's a joke to basically throw someone in the left seat to figure that stuff out on their own with no dispatch office or anything like that to back them up. If you don't come into it with a solid background, good luck to you.
I personally enjoy flight planning and when things don't seem to be ideal I enjoy finding solutions to help accomplish the flight. For example: Sometimes our schedulers choose horrible fuel stops that would require us to do a lot more work and take a lot more time during a turn. Well if I do a few minutes of flight planning I can find a fuel stop that has more desirable weather, customs, traffic, etc and save myself and the customers lots of time and headaches.
JungleJim, I hope you are taking the time to help our under educated and under trained pilots learn the ropes of flight planning when you fly with them.
03-31-2015, 08:30 AM
#1828
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Position: The Dark Side
Posts: 99
Originally Posted by AviatorG
Does anybody have an idea on when they will be doing interviews again for FO's?
04-18-2015, 06:40 PM
#1830
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 690
Supposedly open positions are:
ICT 350/90 SIC
SAT P100 SIC
FTW P100 PIC x2
MKC 90 PIC
FTW P100/P300 SIC
FTW CJ SIC
Subject to some positions being filled since its release, or even some additional positions being added that are not on this list.
ICT 350/90 SIC
SAT P100 SIC
FTW P100 PIC x2
MKC 90 PIC
FTW P100/P300 SIC
FTW CJ SIC
Subject to some positions being filled since its release, or even some additional positions being added that are not on this list.
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