Best way to get better payrates for both the current and future Frontier pilots is for those that can to leave!.

Those that have the opportunity to leave will actually get the better payrates much faster than those that stay behind, but the pressure that is brought on Frontier as people leave will be your best chance to actually see better payrates in the future.

If those on the outside looking in will wait until this is resolved, the new higher payrates could happen even faster

 

Not to paint a broad brush, but with all of the big 6, plus NK, B6, G4, etc all hiring, why can't more guys at F9 get out?

Is it 1) lack of turbine PIC, 2) No degree, 3) DUI or other criminal history 4) Multiple checkride failures, or 5) Senior enough to be bound by the golden handcuffs??

It seems to be that if the NMB isn't going to be of any help, that the most fitting solution is for ALPA to push for F9 pilots to be given expeditious interviews at all those other carriers.

To support this idea further, wouldn't the legacies and 2nd tier majors WANT to poach pilots from their direct competitors like F9, unlike the regionals where they feed the mainline??

 

I have had my app in with United for 20 years, all the way back when it was the scanned paper. Maybe I was under qualified back then but I now have plenty of turbine PIC, no driving violations or criminal record, college degree, and the only failed check ride was my initial CFI. I have a few years left at which point a carrier change will have me break even or lose money.

If you know the secret, please share. My only guess is that during my peak hiring window occurred during the “lost decade”. But for right now my only logical choice is to bite the bullet and fight.

 

Attrition rate is on its way up every month. I believe it’s manily new hires but let’s just say mostly 5yrs and under that are leaving. That’s probably not going to change even with our new contract bc it won’t be nearly good enough to put up with this operation and all the other perks that go with working in the ULCC environment. Going to work everyday and no one has any respect for you or our passengers. This comes from the top down, from upper and middle management to our coworkers and contract employees. No one has proper training to even understand how a real airline employee is expected to act. So it’s not necessarily there fault, it’s just plain sad. Pretty sure instead of the “fastest growing” ULCC we will soon be the fastest shrinking!

 

It was a hard pill for me, I was a not vote. Fact is the NMB isn't going to release anyone when the employer is giving a raise. That's how the NMB looks at the situation. Hate to say it you're better off taking the money and running!!!!

 

I've flown with numerous First Officers that check every box on an application. They've attended numerous job fairs, update airline apps twice a month, and are great to fly with. None can seem to get the call.

I don't think it's so much an issue of why aren't people leaving, it's why haven't they gotten the call. For one Delta stopped hiring over the summer. Two, United hasn't really started hiring a whole lot, albeit a few classes and a large pool. Third, AA is mostly flows. Fourth, SWA from what I hear is extremely fat on pilots although they are still hiring. Work culture there is great, but you'll be an FO on the guppy for a long time. Not to mention if you've been here more than 3 years AND we get a new contract soon (which we will), you'll come out ahead financially if you stay. As for the rest of the carriers anybody here longer than 2 years would be foolish to jump ship due to golden handcuffs, minimal pay diff vs QOL, again if we get a new contract.

I know people are going to start harping, "It is going to be at least another year rapey!" Anybody who judges a 30+ year career on something that may or may not happen within a year is a moron. Ask any senior Capt at any airline and they will tell you the same thing. "Once you get hired, never leave, because the airline you're at now isn't going to be the same one you retire at."

With that being said, if you can get a call from the legacies, please at least interview. It would be a great opportunity.

Flame away.

 

Even if we get our exact contract ask, we’re still going to earn less than the big 4 (and even JB for that matter). We’re talking millions of dollars in career earnings for someone currently in the 30s/early 40s. I don’t fault anyone at all for choosing to stay here-everyone’s situation is different. But everyone needs to take a realistic look at the numbers long term. No one is going to be poor by staying here, but they’re not going to earn what the big 4 are paying and I highly doubt we catch up even in the next cycle

 

Are you at an airline yet? About a year ago you didn’t even have 800 hours. Just curious....

 

No, I'm currently flying for a 135 operator.

 

I’ve been here for over 4 years. When I got hired here I was very confident I would move on in less than 6 months. I have everything the legacies are looking for, went to multiple career fairs, some in house and was told my resume is everything they are looking for. Guess what, nothing, not even an invite for an interview. My point is that a significant amount of people here would love to have moved on, is just not as easy as some think. Because of this, I’m hoping and doing everything in my power to help us achieve a good contract, because although I would have loved to be at Delta by now, that may never happen. I have been told by many pilots at legacies that at this point at my age I’m better riding this ship for better or worse. I still keep my apps up to date as I would love to at least get the interview to then have the opportunity to make a decision, until that happens is all good wishes.