Thanks for that. Hadn't seen it yet. Its a good calculator, I feel some of the verbiage used is worded in such a way as to suggest a yes vote. It is a bit more positive in how it displays TA1 vs how it suggests the downfalls of TA2.

Either way, it reaffirms my belief that TA2 is worth it even in the short term. But ESPECIALLY in the long term. Starting it out with 12 months to reach 5% though?? 5% still doesn't bring us up to industry average. So again that's not enough.

Like stated though this calculator is ONLY looking at rates, there are many other things to consider besides just rates. Ok it assumes 80hr months...how many days do I have to work to reach those 80 hrs, that could be very different under different contracts.

 

You know you can input whatever you want into the yellow fields, right? you can adjust TA2 to whatever timing and % increase you want and even play with DC % and year over year increases. Throw in your own employee number to get accurate info for you personally.

 

I was reading they are moving to robot greeters: One positive change, the robot greeters can speak and understand 160 languages.
This is a reason that we need UBI (Universal Basic Income).

 

I like the concept but my biggest complaint is that I think a viable TA2 would not have the 82+ premium in exchange for a 10% increase in the middle of the pay scale and closer to around 5% at the top. Those are not parameters that you can change in the calculator. A straight 10% increase across the board puts our top of scale well ahead of JetBlue, while the middle is still behind them. I just don’t see Indigo signing off on the top side being $10/hour above JetBlue.

 

Yes, I adjusted them. The point is that 12 and 5% is a ridiculous starting point. Would have been better if the creator left that blank...maybe it was and this is just what it showed whenever it was last edited. But, 12 months for 5% given how low we are to begin with, IMO 5% is achievable much sooner. Why, because the company is in control and they came to the table out of nowhere.

 

I am substantially less optimistic about TA2 then you guys.

I could see Frontier giving us a big middle finger and then refusing to negotiate. They already got tons and tons of fresh applicants. We lost our leverage of unfilled classes.

I'm not saying that an eventual TA2 wont be better, but if I know Frontier, itll be less than you want and take longer than you want. ... just something to consider.

 

Does anybody else feel like we have been ambushed in broad daylight? Or have we just been masterfully outplayed by Indigo?

Indigo sprang PBS on us in the 11th hour. We accepted it and got nothing in return. Our current scheduling system is about the only thing in our current contract that is near industry leading.

To top it off, we are conceding it for an unknown. We are trading it for something to be determined in the future, by some group of management and pilot representatives that we are supposed to trust. In lieu of that, an arbitrator will determine our PBS language?

WTF? Why would we even think of considering this? Our management can not be trusted! We have gotten burned multiple times in the past with ambiguous weak contract language. We have gotten burned by arbitrators.

Indigo reneged on LOA 67 contract language that should have improved our pay over 2 years ago. Have we forgotten? Challenging market conditions my ass! It has been the best of times for Indigo. They shafted us, while making themselves hugely rich.

Now they spring an AIP on us that is below industry average in every regard. Why are we even considering it? Have we lost our self respect? This AIP only becomes our contract if WE agree to it. We hold the cards. We must agree to it.

Or we send it back with a resounding No. Or we convince our NC/MEC to shut this thing down before they even send it to us for a vote. The quickest way for us to get to an acceptable agreement would be if our MEC voted this down before sending it to the membership for a vote.

I urge everyone to contact your rep!

 

I know that I have appeared as a strong yes voter on these forums at times, but I am not opposed to voting No.

My hesitation is this: we don't seem to be at all unified in why we would vote no. And without that, how can we expect a satisfactory TA2? If we vote it down for 5 different reasons, what the heck is the NC supposed to do with that? Do you want them to push back on PBS? Contract duration? Pay rates? The gutted middle of pay scale rates? The lack of Redeye or A321 overrides?

What are we voting it down over, and what do you want the NC to do about it? I believe that when Southwest and Delta voted their TAs down, it was for very specific reasons. Lack of scope protection at SW and the awful medical policy at DL if you called in sick too many times. They didn't vote them down because the pay wasn't high enough.

I am not optimistic that frontier will come up with a satisfactory TA2. I believe they will punish us by not negotiating at all for some time and then try and pull some BS money shuffle to make it look better while not really adding much if anything to the pot.

I have watched Indigo operate and treat us for 5 years now. Nothing they have ever done leads me to believe they will agree to substantial improvements in TA2. And if I'm right, they will add so little to TA2 that we wont recoup our losses.

I could be wrong and I could be swayed to vote No, but I see this talk of "oooo 5% more in 6 months" and i just don't see it going that well for us.

 

This is where the LEC is supposed to vote it down rather than drag it out with a membership vote. Then be clear and concise with a few items, although substantial, presented back to the NC. Then the NC should sell it to the company with good presentation.

What we have now is a bare minimum deal on behalf of the company just to get it to slide through.

It’s not what we’re leaving on the table by not signing this deal, it’s what we’re leaving on the table by signing this deal.

 

I am unable to change the fields in yellow. It says at the top of the spreadsheet "you don't have permission to edit this file." Ideas?


Edit: Disregard I figured it out. For anyone else having this issue you need to download the excel file to a computer and then open it in Excel before you can edit your info in.