Frontier Negotiations Discussion
11-30-2018, 08:57 AM
#3801
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,422
.....and some business experience.
Not one single person who I know that has ever run a business and actually met a bottom line is jumping up and down in support of this AIP, exclaiming that “we better take it” and “this is the best we’re going to get” (I am sure there might be a few out there, but I don’t know them).
However, there are plenty who have never done anything but operate a piece of heavy equipment and who couldn’t tell you the actual difference between profit and margin who DO jump up and down and DO make those very exclamations.
Not one single person who I know that has ever run a business and actually met a bottom line is jumping up and down in support of this AIP, exclaiming that “we better take it” and “this is the best we’re going to get” (I am sure there might be a few out there, but I don’t know them).
However, there are plenty who have never done anything but operate a piece of heavy equipment and who couldn’t tell you the actual difference between profit and margin who DO jump up and down and DO make those very exclamations.
Every business owner in the world would appreciate lower labor costs. It makes the company more lean and more competitive. How does Frontier compete against other airlines? By offering lower cost tickets.
I haven't met a single person outside of the airline industry who wasn't blown away by hearing about a 50% pay raise.
11-30-2018, 09:05 AM
#3802
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 453
Are you serious? Honestly, I can't tell.
Every business owner in the world would appreciate lower labor costs. It makes the company more lean and more competitive. How does Frontier compete against other airlines? By offering lower cost tickets.
I haven't met a single person outside of the airline industry who wasn't blown away by hearing about a 50% pay raise.
Every business owner in the world would appreciate lower labor costs. It makes the company more lean and more competitive. How does Frontier compete against other airlines? By offering lower cost tickets.
I haven't met a single person outside of the airline industry who wasn't blown away by hearing about a 50% pay raise.
11-30-2018, 09:30 AM
#3803
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 461
11-30-2018, 09:58 AM
#3804
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 289
Are you serious? Honestly, I can't tell.
Every business owner in the world would appreciate lower labor costs. It makes the company more lean and more competitive. How does Frontier compete against other airlines? By offering lower cost tickets.
I haven't met a single person outside of the airline industry who wasn't blown away by hearing about a 50% pay raise.
Every business owner in the world would appreciate lower labor costs. It makes the company more lean and more competitive. How does Frontier compete against other airlines? By offering lower cost tickets.
I haven't met a single person outside of the airline industry who wasn't blown away by hearing about a 50% pay raise.
11-30-2018, 10:23 AM
#3808
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,422
Aero, you need to go intern at the NMB. I’m sure they’d love to have you. Even with a 50% raise we’re way behind. If we vote this in we will cement ourselves at the bottom and may never catch up which is exactly what the whole idea of pattern bargaining is an attempt to avoid.
In all serious.... again, we either vote this thing in, or vote it down resoundingly. Voting it down by a small margin will cost us. I have advocated for an organized effort to vote this thing down and asked all the chest thumpers on here that they are going to do to help our cause. And... nothing. Not even crickets.
If you really feel this TA is truly damaging to us, I ask: what are you going to do about it? I'd possibly be interested in an organized effort but it needs to be very strong and very aggressive to result in a resounding No vote. Something that would force the company to really add significantly to the pot. Voting it down by 2 or 3% is just going to cost us in lost wages waiting to get pennies more. Hell, the company could probably just give us the cold shoulder for 6 months and present the same exact TA plus a penny and enough guys will brake down and take it. I don't want to loose $4000/ month waiting for a few more bucks.
11-30-2018, 10:33 AM
#3809
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 443
This scares the hell out of me to be honest. These guys are beyond shrewd. There is no way our beloved (yet novice) negotiators pulled the wool over their eyes. Just no way!
If the company gave the impression that they were bumblingly giving up stuff, it's because they wanted to give that impression. And the only reason they would want to give that impression is because they fully intend to conduct a bait-and-switch later.
Mark these words here, and I take no pleasure in being right. The company has never honored their agreements with labor, why would they in the future?
If the company gave the impression that they were bumblingly giving up stuff, it's because they wanted to give that impression. And the only reason they would want to give that impression is because they fully intend to conduct a bait-and-switch later.
Mark these words here, and I take no pleasure in being right. The company has never honored their agreements with labor, why would they in the future?
11-30-2018, 11:07 AM
#3810
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 289
Bro, I'm gunning for an unpaid internship at the GO. Screw the NMB.
In all serious.... again, we either vote this thing in, or vote it down resoundingly. Voting it down by a small margin will cost us. I have advocated for an organized effort to vote this thing down and asked all the chest thumpers on here that they are going to do to help our cause. And... nothing. Not even crickets.
If you really feel this TA is truly damaging to us, I ask: what are you going to do about it? I'd possibly be interested in an organized effort but it needs to be very strong and very aggressive to result in a resounding No vote. Something that would force the company to really add significantly to the pot. Voting it down by 2 or 3% is just going to cost us in lost wages waiting to get pennies more. Hell, the company could probably just give us the cold shoulder for 6 months and present the same exact TA plus a penny and enough guys will brake down and take it. I don't want to loose $4000/ month waiting for a few more bucks.
In all serious.... again, we either vote this thing in, or vote it down resoundingly. Voting it down by a small margin will cost us. I have advocated for an organized effort to vote this thing down and asked all the chest thumpers on here that they are going to do to help our cause. And... nothing. Not even crickets.
If you really feel this TA is truly damaging to us, I ask: what are you going to do about it? I'd possibly be interested in an organized effort but it needs to be very strong and very aggressive to result in a resounding No vote. Something that would force the company to really add significantly to the pot. Voting it down by 2 or 3% is just going to cost us in lost wages waiting to get pennies more. Hell, the company could probably just give us the cold shoulder for 6 months and present the same exact TA plus a penny and enough guys will brake down and take it. I don't want to loose $4000/ month waiting for a few more bucks.
I think most people leaning no (myself included) are waiting for the full TA before we start a concerted effort to shoot this thing down. If the union can stand in front of us with an accurate costing model and definitively show me this is all Indigo can afford with hard data (company SEC filings, DOT reports, etc.) I will vote yes and quit my whining. Until then it’s game on.
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