So when this TA passes are we all going to be unified? Or are only NO voters allowed to be unified?

 

“No” voters are usually much more passionate about their vote versus a “yes” voter. Keep in mine many many people would rather not engage in a back and forth in the cockpit and usually take the path of least resistance. Politics and religion usually follow the same path.

The reality is whatever straw poll you take, it will be inversely accurate. I remember the “spirit TA poll” on these forums; think it was over 80% was a “no vote,” it passed overwhelming.

How many passengers ride on Frontier planes today, after telling family and friends they would never fly Frontier again because they charged them for xxxxx?

What people say and what they do are not the same. You guys might very well get the support to vote this down; but remember the ALPA machine is firing up soon and it’s goal will be to tell you they believe this is the best they can do. They will tell you it’s up to you to vote no, but road shows are sell jobs. Understandable, they believe this is the most they can get and it’s their job to tell you why.

 

^ This.

Expect about 25% of the people that tell you they're voting no to actually vote yes....happens almost everytime. Also kind of like the 2016 Election, there will be a large number of hidden voters, who keep their opinions mostly to themselves knowing that a yes vote might be unpopular.

 

I had a chance to speak to a union rep today. What I was told was that our Vacation policy and our PBS work rules are industry leading. The union pushed the company vary hard and was surprised multiple times by what the company gave.

Our PBS work rules will be the best in the industry. We will maintain the maximum amount of flexibility and the union believes guys will end up with schedules they are happier with than we currently have.

Our vacation policy will allow you to either go for maximum days off or maximum credit, whichever you choose. There will be 2 inv days along with your vacation that you can place both before or after your vacation week, or 1 on either side. This will guarantee a minimum of 9 days of vacation. We will have the ability to tell the PBS software if we want it to simulate our vacation covering maximum credit so that it adds the smallest amount of flying to your schedule to get maximum days off. You can have PBS simulate covering 45 hours of flying so that it only puts 15 to 25 hours of flying on your schedule resulting in a ton of days off. Or, if you want lots of credit for the month, you can have it simulate that your vacation only covered 15 hours of flying. In that case it will add 60ish hours of flying to your schedule resulting in at least 95 hours credit. You will still be able to add flying on top of that if you wish.

We will retain premium credit over 82, allowing for very high credit vacation months if so desired. Many other airlines have credit caps, which we will not. So if you would like to hustle, you'll still be able to and at much higher hourly rates.

Regarding the signing bonus, it'll be based on months you've been on property since the amenable date as well as factor in your position on the pay scale. Captains on year 12 or better will get just under $100,000.

 

We all knew the sales pitch would be impressive.

Let me get this straight. Our vacation and PBS will be industry leading? Will the language be in the TA for us to make an informed voting decision on?

Will our vacation and PBS be better than we have now, or will it be a concession? I will wait to see, but I will bet that it will be a concession, or the company wouldn’t be demanding it. If it is a concession to what we have now, what are we getting in return for it? Industry average pay? A three year duration? Redeye override? 321 override?

 

Coldwhiskey, while I share your skepticism of PBS, I believe that for those who are senior enough to bid the perfect line to drop 40+ hours of flying with one vacation week, PBS may be a concession. However, to the majority of pilots whos seniority doesnt guarantee a killer vacation, PBS may very well be an improvement.

And I'm tired of people saying "we got nothing in exchange for pbs." What the heck do you call a 50% raise in compensation? This was a negotiation, not a hostage situation. Yes, we gave up line bidding, and in return we got big pay raises and really solid PBS work rules along with industry leading vacation.

Let's give the union a chance to explain the deal before we vote no.

 

The only reason that it is a 50% increase is because Indigo welched on their LOA 67 obligation 2 and a half years ago.

It is still industry BOTTOM pay for the aircraft you operate. We used to be paid industry leading wages.

 

The bottom feeders don’t see it that way. We’ve all tried. They’ve already spent that bonus check just like they picked up all them incentivized trips up to self serve. You can’t convert a traitor. Their set in their ways...

 

Exactly. It’s sad that this has to be explained. F9 pilots will get what we collectively deserve, good or bad. It’s hard to believe the group would fold over so easily.

 

2 mths ago, they wouldn’t have. Few bread crumbs hit the ground, the weak gorge themselves. It’s sad. Can’t believe folks would shed integrity that fast and easily.