I call a 50 percent raise "less then owed". That has nothing to do with getting PBS. PBS is a trade for our current scheduling system and at the low rates proposed (especially for the junior folks) we better have industry leading PBS to make up for that. In negotiations you don't trade for something you should already be getting, like pay increases to industry standard. Or already have, like our QOL system, when every other airline is way ahead. We shouldn't be giving anything away period. Some shuffling around sure but giving away, no.

I keep hearing the leading PBS garbage from the union and people who know nothing about PBS that have spoken to a union member, like yourself, and I ask myself, what do they know about PBS? Have they ever worked under PBS at a crappy company? The answer is NO. So how do you know how the system works? You don't. So how can you believe what the union is selling you on the phone without showing you the language? You don't. It is better to wait for the TA language on PBS for the people who have used PBS to examine it and really really listen to what they have to say. If they don't have the language written for the TA then you better vote NO. End of story.

Better clean your toilet now and put in a new bleach and blue tablet to get ready. It is gonna get nasty.

If we were looking at a 2 year “let’s get this done” duration it would be one thing. We could take a quick bite of the apple that puts us back in the same universe as everyone else. But 5+ YEARS is insane, we’ll be 3 cycles behind and halfway through the 2020s by the time the next contract is wrapped up.

Well, always glad to provide laugh, even if you're laughing at me.

However, if you look at the results, I'd say they out played us. At every step. They have out smarted us, out negotiated us, and been running one of the most profitable airlines in the country. Yeah, the operation sucks, but they choose to not spend money on it.

Franke has been a industry game changer for 25 years, and run 7 airlines. So yeah, I'd say they are seasoned pros.

Guys, quit repeating this BS!

Do you all have memory loss? What happened AT EVERY ONE OF THOSE carriers when we have gone thru a recession? They took pay cuts!!! Do you really want to be negotiating in 2 years when the next recession is likely to hit?

It's unreal how some of you lack the ability to see the big picture.

If a major recession hits we’re gonna take pay cuts mid-contract regardless of whether we are actively negotiating, and we’ll have also already given away our work rules. Win/win for the company. That’s the big picture.

The No vote boat seems to be running low on steam..

And the RLA works both ways, outside of a court order they would have to lock us out to exert pressure, which would hurt them just as much as it would us.

All they have to do is file for bankruptcy and the RLA goes out the window it’s a flawed system.

It’s harder for a company to file bankruptcy to get out of their labor contracts than it was during earlier decades due to previous abuses of the system. They have to prove substantial harm would occur. Not saying it wouldn’t happen just that it’s more difficult than simply filing the paperwork.