Frontier Negotiations Discussion
11-30-2018, 08:27 PM
#3851
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Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by DENpilot
I do... and they say there are things to mitigate any losses. I have no details, because they aren't supposed to be talking about it.
BTW, you know half of those aren't benefits, right? Our transition conflict is crap. Super seniority = crap. 14 day off reserve lines? Are you serious? They hardly ever show up and I would hardly consider them a benefit. BTW, they said we are keeping vacation slide.
BTW, you know half of those aren't benefits, right? Our transition conflict is crap. Super seniority = crap. 14 day off reserve lines? Are you serious? They hardly ever show up and I would hardly consider them a benefit. BTW, they said we are keeping vacation slide.
12-01-2018, 05:55 AM
#3852
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Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 228
Originally Posted by Aero1900
Well, always glad to provide laugh, even if you're laughing at me.
However, if you look at the results, I'd say they out played us. At every step. They have out smarted us, out negotiated us, and been running one of the most profitable airlines in the country. Yeah, the operation sucks, but they choose to not spend money on it.
Franke has been a industry game changer for 25 years, and run 7 airlines. So yeah, I'd say they are seasoned pros.
However, if you look at the results, I'd say they out played us. At every step. They have out smarted us, out negotiated us, and been running one of the most profitable airlines in the country. Yeah, the operation sucks, but they choose to not spend money on it.
Franke has been a industry game changer for 25 years, and run 7 airlines. So yeah, I'd say they are seasoned pros.
12-01-2018, 06:12 AM
#3853
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Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,396
Originally Posted by monkeybrains
I wasn’t laughing at you, I was laughing at what you said. Can you explain to me in detail, without hyperbole, or unsubstantiated rhetoric how they out played, out smarted and out negotiated us? We haven’t seen anything other than bullet points, so I assume your statement is based on that information alone.
That's how they out played us.
12-01-2018, 06:16 AM
#3854
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Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 380
Originally Posted by Aero1900
We are about to vote in a bottom of the industry contract.
That's how they out played us.
That's how they out played us.
12-01-2018, 06:35 AM
#3855
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Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,396
Originally Posted by Notarealpilot
This! How do some of you guys not get it. We will be bringing down the industry average when other unions start to include our pay rates. We’re fueling the need for Legacy managements to want to ask for pay concessions in order to stay competitive with us and Spirit.
The legacy airlines have so far survived us just fine. We are currently paid way less than them! If we vote this contract in, our pay and benefits come much closer to catching up. I, personally will go from making $80/ hour less than my United counterparts to $25 less an hour.
That helps the legacies, not hurt
12-01-2018, 06:36 AM
#3856
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 330
Originally Posted by Notarealpilot
This! How do some of you guys not get it. We will be bringing down the industry average when other unions start to include our pay rates. We’re fueling the need for Legacy managements to want to ask for pay concessions in order to stay competitive with us and Spirit.
Do you think a gal at United gives a rat's arse what happens to you? The only thing she cares about is her. You need to get over this virtue signaling "Im doing it for the industry" machismo. Frontier is a bastard but it is our bastard and I am not gonna drive it into the ground to make a point or protect a United pilot's pay.
I can guarantee you that if Kirby came to the UAL pilots and said we need to put an end to the ULCC carriers and we need your help, our ALPA brothers and sisters would gladly end your existence (and not even offer you a preferential interview)
Time to wake up people.
12-01-2018, 07:11 AM
#3858
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Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 453
Originally Posted by butthert
Do you think a gal at United gives a rat's arse what happens to you? The only thing she cares about is her. You need to get over this virtue signaling "Im doing it for the industry" machismo. Frontier is a bastard but it is our bastard and I am not gonna drive it into the ground to make a point or protect a United pilot's pay.
I can guarantee you that if Kirby came to the UAL pilots and said we need to put an end to the ULCC carriers and we need your help, our ALPA brothers and sisters would gladly end your existence (and not even offer you a preferential interview)
Time to wake up people.
I can guarantee you that if Kirby came to the UAL pilots and said we need to put an end to the ULCC carriers and we need your help, our ALPA brothers and sisters would gladly end your existence (and not even offer you a preferential interview)
Time to wake up people.
12-01-2018, 07:21 AM
#3859
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 330
Originally Posted by Wheelswatch
Do you really think, that if we were carbon copied a B6 or AS contract, Indigo would be driven into the ground? As in they would no longer be profitable? This is an honest question, I'm not looking to fight with you.
I can see how my post may have been construed as such. But no I do not think that. I was just saying that I do not care how our contract affects the legacies. They are doing just fine with or without us.
We need to make decisions (whether YES of NO) on US. Not how it affects UAL or DAL negotiations. They will take care of #1 and we must do the same.
12-01-2018, 10:40 AM
#3860
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Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 410
Originally Posted by AncientAliens
If we were looking at a 2 year “let’s get this done” duration it would be one thing. We could take a quick bite of the apple that puts us back in the same universe as everyone else. But 5+ YEARS is insane, we’ll be 3 cycles behind and halfway through the 2020s by the time the next contract is wrapped up.
We currently are so far behind our peers because we agreed to a duration of our current contract that was MUCH too long.
Let’s learn from our past mistakes. This needs to be a three year deal until we have joined the pattern.
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