Frontier Negotiations Discussion
11-03-2018, 02:12 PM
#2852
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 617
Originally Posted by wt93205
Keep in mind with PBS:...
5. Once PBS awards are out, it is like going straight to the 28th. What is done is done. You have very little wiggle room and the reserve coverage will be slim to none for the buffers so good luck dropping anything once the company right sizes itself. It is like setting prices for tickets and knowing how much they can oversell based on history. ...
5. Once PBS awards are out, it is like going straight to the 28th. What is done is done. You have very little wiggle room and the reserve coverage will be slim to none for the buffers so good luck dropping anything once the company right sizes itself. It is like setting prices for tickets and knowing how much they can oversell based on history. ...
This point should be #1! This will affect ALL pilots EVERY month. Schedule flexibility will all be done through the bidding process. It’s possibly a “win” for a select senior few, but the rest will see a marked decrease in schedule flexibility.
11-03-2018, 02:14 PM
#2853
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Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 617
Originally Posted by wt93205
However ALPA is still limited to what flights needs to be covered so in a way garbage in garbage out.
11-03-2018, 02:15 PM
#2854
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 617
Originally Posted by ColdWhiskey
Beware!! Buyer's Remorse
You will have a 'substantial ratification bonus' to spend once and then it will be gone (don't forget this is only part of the money you already earned).
At the first hiccup in the economy or 911 type event, this company will demand concessions, and this pilot group will gladly give them (we have proved that), and we will once again be left with low pay and PBS.
If we give them PBS now, we will have it FOREVER!!! The pay is only temporary.
Make no mistake about it. PBS is a CONCESSION and that is why the company wants it so badly. The carrot they are dangling is some TEMPORARY money.
There aren't very many things that make Frontier a more desirable place to work than the others. Let's not give one of them away unnecessarily.
I feel like for once since I have worked here we hold the best cards. Don't let Indigo win a huge poker pot when they are holding a pair of deuces and we have a full house.
You will have a 'substantial ratification bonus' to spend once and then it will be gone (don't forget this is only part of the money you already earned).
At the first hiccup in the economy or 911 type event, this company will demand concessions, and this pilot group will gladly give them (we have proved that), and we will once again be left with low pay and PBS.
If we give them PBS now, we will have it FOREVER!!! The pay is only temporary.
Make no mistake about it. PBS is a CONCESSION and that is why the company wants it so badly. The carrot they are dangling is some TEMPORARY money.
There aren't very many things that make Frontier a more desirable place to work than the others. Let's not give one of them away unnecessarily.
I feel like for once since I have worked here we hold the best cards. Don't let Indigo win a huge poker pot when they are holding a pair of deuces and we have a full house.
11-03-2018, 03:43 PM
#2855
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 180
Everyone on here needs to chill the out!! PBS is NOT a concession if its done right. Things change people and opportunities present. Our union guys have to live by this new contract as well, so do you honestly think for one second that they would approve some provision that's an actual concession?? Do you all think there is some underlying agenda that allows them to circumvent what they negotiate?? Seriously, I've never heard such a bunch of whiny babies. Take a breath and chill your know-it-all out. Don't forget that only fools scream NO without having the big picture. Remember all the tools that were screaming "I'm a NO vote" at Spirit and JetBlue?? Guess what, they both passed by 73-75%. This one will too.
Last edited by tomgoodman; 11-03-2018 at 07:48 PM. Reason: Mod edit: removed inappropriate language
11-03-2018, 03:56 PM
#2856
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 71
The most frustrating aspect of the latest email from the NC is the fact that we finally seemed to have the momentum. The company refused to negotiate until absolutely necessary. The second the company wanted to finally dance we jumped in head over feet and had a deal in 9-10 days of mediated sessions. This better be a knockout deal! If there is any concessionary sections or changes it will be a shame. We have all suffered through the daily agony of this company. To sell out our momentum so quickly would be a tragedy. I hope i'm wrong but have a bad feeling about this! Fingers crossed!
11-03-2018, 04:13 PM
#2857
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Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 180
Originally Posted by RockyMntAV8R
The most frustrating aspect of the latest email from the NC is the fact that we finally seemed to have the momentum. The company refused to negotiate until absolutely necessary. The second the company wanted to finally dance we jumped in head over feet and had a deal in 9-10 days of mediated sessions. This better be a knockout deal! If there is any concessionary sections or changes it will be a shame. We have all suffered through the daily agony of this company. To sell out our momentum so quickly would be a tragedy. I hope i'm wrong but have a bad feeling about this! Fingers crossed!
11-03-2018, 04:31 PM
#2858
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 461
Originally Posted by motorboatin
I interpret your emotionalism to read, anything thats different in the newly negotiated language will be a concession?? If that's not what you're saying, please correct me, but the peacocky "This better be a knockout deal" is laughable. Reminder, our union is negotiating, not demanding. Do you advocate that they play games vs get us a deal?? I'm glad to know they took the opportunity and used it to our advantage and saw whatever cracks they did and got the Company to dance. The way a rational individual sees this process is that once you have an opportunity to pounce, you do! We are in a volatile environment. Things can change quickly, especially in the world in which we all live. Just because you have momentum doesn't mean you start playing games.
You're certainly free to vote accordingly but fear of the unknown will not factor into my vote whatsoever. This TA is going to have to stand on its own and then some. I will not reward the company for their bad behavior.
11-03-2018, 04:41 PM
#2859
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by motorboatin
Take a breath and chill your know-it-all as$es out. Don't forget that only fools scream NO without having the big picture. Remember all the tools that were screaming "I'm a NO vote" at Spirit and JetBlue?? Guess what, they both passed by 73-75%. This one will too.
Thanks for your continued well crafted, know-it-all advice. Please follow your own infinite wisdom and CHILL! I will concede the last sentence in your post and agree our future TA will pass regardless of content (maybe good but maybe not so good). The roadshow will resemble a high pressure timeshare sales event. Sorry to break it to you but no one is right all the time, not even you!
11-03-2018, 04:57 PM
#2860
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Position: Not an RJ driver anymore
Posts: 1,033
From a Delta guy here...first off, congratulations. You guys and gals are our ALPA brothers and sisters and no one in this industry has fought as hard or sacrificed as much to get a TA. I'm serious on this - you deserve this and deserve to vote.
With that being said, I'm astounded to already see people saying "I'm voting no." You haven't read a thing about the new contract and yet you've already decided to turn it down. Why? Because of PBS? Look, we use NavBlue here at Delta and it's clunky as a used Chevy, but it does the job it's supposed to do. If you learn how to use it, you will be fine. Having both line bid and use pref bid, pref bid is way better.
I think what y'all need to do is read the new things, thank your negotiators, and vote. Having PBS does not make a contract concessionary. If you determine that it's a concessionary contract WITHOUT PBS, vote no. If not, vote yes.
No matter what, you deserve this. I'm very happy for my friends there, and I can only hope that the future remains bright for you.
With that being said, I'm astounded to already see people saying "I'm voting no." You haven't read a thing about the new contract and yet you've already decided to turn it down. Why? Because of PBS? Look, we use NavBlue here at Delta and it's clunky as a used Chevy, but it does the job it's supposed to do. If you learn how to use it, you will be fine. Having both line bid and use pref bid, pref bid is way better.
I think what y'all need to do is read the new things, thank your negotiators, and vote. Having PBS does not make a contract concessionary. If you determine that it's a concessionary contract WITHOUT PBS, vote no. If not, vote yes.
No matter what, you deserve this. I'm very happy for my friends there, and I can only hope that the future remains bright for you.
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