DENpilot

Absolutely, 100% false! No one can be forced on to reserve while a junior pilot gets a line.

Mods need to start banning folks who tell such blatant lies on here.

cloudwarrior

No. This is a discussion.
No bands.

CantStayAway

I agree this is what SHOULD be. However, this is exactly how PBS works. Don’t take my word for it, ask someone on the NC. It may be less common at Frontier because of the 4% remaining open time rule, but I’d be shocked if someone who has 2 weeks of vacation in one month gets a reserve line.

Do you understand how PBS works? Just in case someone reading this doesn’t, the JPWG will negotiate a minimum line value for us. Let’s say it’s 77 hours for example. When PBS is building lines it has to get each pilot up to 77 hours minimum, or that pilot will be placed on reserve. This is easy for the top 75% of the list. When it gets to the bottom, there are less trips available to get to the line value. If someone has a week of vacation (valued between 15 and 40 hours of “virtual credit” for the purposes of PBS reaching the 77) and they choose 40 hours value, then they only need to find 37 hours worth of flying within their remaining days of availability. If there are not enough trips available to build a complete line, but there are two 4 days worth 19 hours each that don’t fall over those vacation/inviolate days then this pilot reached the 77 threshold and is a line holder for that month.

Likewise, 2 weeks of vacation in the above scenario would automatically produce a “line” and possibly not even add any flying. This stuff all has to be negotiated but this is a general basic explanation of how it will work.

therapysession

It doesn't really matter what vacation will look like anyways. Being industry bottom still, the legacies really picking up hiring, and the majority of our growth over the duration of this contract, none of us will even have vacation since there are no provisions about it being canceled. Obviously we learn nothing

FYI United's latest vacancy had a 2015 upgrade.

Bulldog319

You haven’t talked to the NC yet have you? You are absolutely 100% wrong on this, it doesn’t matter how many airlines you have worked PBS under, this is not how it’s going to work here. That is straight from the mouth of the NC vice chair.

Xdashdriver

I did ask and you’re right, RSV has zero credit. However, on the FDO with vacation thing mentioned in the FAQ, that is something they are going to try to negotiate with the company in the JPWG. A little misleading to suggest that it is currently in there.

As far as your repeated comment that reserves are not on PBS, I’m not sure what you mean by that at all. All lines, reserve and even training is going to be bid using the PBS software.

Bulldog319

I’m sure you will use that software to bid, but if you were really using PBS while on reserve here then a reserve day would have a credit value to be used along with your vacation credit value. Instead your vacation will have a day off credit that will leave you extremely shortchanged when compared to your PBS lineholding co-workers.

I would never bid an FDO, zero control over your schedule, redeye one day, early show the next. Credit should be credit regardless.

They may call it PBS but it’s at the very most PBS lite for reserves. Especially on vacation months.

Bulldog319

Another interesting question for the NC would be how many hours does a reserve have to fly to make up a sick day if a reserve day is zero credit.

Gary et al

Bulldog, let me clear this up for you...

I'll preface this by again saying that I am against this TA. The problem however is that if those of us against the TA spread misleading statements to get it voted down then we may not be seen as credible and lose our voice.

It's pretty clear you haven't worked under PBS before, and technically Can'tStayAway is correct that a very junior pilot could get a line while others senior stay on reserve.

The big key part that you are missing and not understanding is TLV, Target Line Value. This will have a maximum and a minimum set by our wonderful JWPG. Let's say it is 75-95. The company chooses the TLV each month based on block hours of flying. Let's say for this example the TLV is 83hrs. That means that the PBS software wants to get each pilot at or above 83 hrs credit before it will stop putting new flying on their schedule. Often a window is also negotiated like a -5 / +15 or -10 / +20 so that if the system finds 76 hrs of flying for you and nothing else remains that would fit on your schedule then that can be an awardable line. The window also allows pilots to bid for a little extra flying in the beginning so that the system could get to 83 hrs and then still dump on a juicy 13 hr two day that you want as well.

Now in regards to reserve, we'll say every pilot has ANY PAIRINGS on their bid sheet...pilots stop getting lines and start getting reserve when there are not enough trips left to fill a pilots schedule within the TLV window. In our case this could be 4.5% of trips remaining. The system can use any of those trips in the 4.5% to build a line, but it can not go below 4% remaining, and in this example .5% is not enough to build a line for a pilot. These pilots now get reserve. But wait the most junior guy in base has a week of vacation! That week gives the pilot 35hrs of credit before the system ever starts putting on trips, and it also happens that in that 4.5% remaining much of it is not touching the pilot's vacation. On this month this pilot needs 48 hrs of flying to get a line. None of the reserve pilots ahead of him could get a line because they needed 83 hrs. But because only 48 hrs are needed the system dumps some flying onto this pilots schedule, gets them in the TLV window, and awards a line. Now there is still 4.1% of flying in open time so all the rules are satisfied.

Now in regards to 3 weeks of vacation and negative credit...that wouldn't happen because they would have 105 hrs of pre credit going in already putting them above the TLV so it would be a line awarded with no flying.

With 2 weeks it can get trickier for a junior pilot. You have 70 hrs which gets you close, but you have to hope the TLV is low enough and you are senior enough in the reserve world to pick up the scraps and make sure you get above the TLV otherwise you will be reserve and not have anywhere near as much time off.

A line holder with 3 weeks of vacation basically just goes into the month with 105 hrs. They could tell the system they want the pre credit to be lower so that it will award flying onto their days available. This could mean they get a 26 hr 4-day in addition to their weeks and have 131 hrs credit with all of their vacation off, not sure if they would be allowed to pick up on their vacation if they do this, but possibly...

Hopefully that clears things up and makes a little more sense how the system works.

Bulldog319

Sounds reasonable. I hope you’re right. Call a rep and you might be surprised.