Biffsteritis

We should all do exactly as the union has advised; read the language for ourselves and cast an informed vote based on the entirety of this TA.


Here’s something I just read:

....MOT procedures cease at the implementation of PBS.

....the company can now install cockpit video recording devices. Maybe they’ll find a way to use the iPad camera in the soon to come ship EFBs? To think I made fun of all those delta guys with tape over the cameras on their EFBs.

Aero1900

Where does it say that? Page #?

Biffsteritis

Elimination of MOT — LOA 3.5

Flight information recorder—Page 26.5

Flipadelphia

It's in the LOA on PBS implementation, I think the second one, but there are only like 3 or 4 LOAs in the back.

Bulldog319

I think everyone expected to lose MOT if we were using PBS. PBS is essentially nothing more than MOT except you start out at 0 hours, there is no super seniority, you get all of your choices run at once instead of rounds, and if you don’t bid for enough pairings it’s gonna fill in to the required hours based on other bidding options you have chosen as well as whatever rules are applied.

chinookwinds

After reviewing the full TA, the Webinar and attending the roadshow....I am now a definite NO VOTE. In fact a giant 1000% HELL NO VOTE.
This agreement lacks in many areas, has very weak contract language and is not industry average as expected.
Look, the NC had a objective to meet based on the pollings that were taken and we as a pilot group had expectations based on our original proposed ask and the negotiating news letters and that were published during negotiations. In August we raised our ask, because (from ALPA and our NC) this is now where the market is in regards to industry average pay due to pattern bargaining. At the end of the day, we could not achieve that and in the most favorable negotiating environment in this industries history. We didn’t even get the pay rates we proposed over 2 years ago and with a gaping hole in the middle scale of pay (slope) We asked for 16% retirement originally, dropped to 15% with our new ask and settled for 12% DOS.
Many of us were asked a couple years ago by members of the NC what we would accept to get a deal done. My response 2 years ago (top captain pay for reference only) was 240, 15% DC, 12 year longevity, with NO loss of current work rules and ABSOLUTELY NO PBS... I could be wrong, but from talking to many others this was very similar to their responses.
Honestly, the pay rates and 12% DC DOS with 12 year longevity scale is something I can live with, but not with PBS and all the other ares which lack improvements, not industry average and/or are concessionary in nature.
I would love to get this deal done. But as of today, and only based on the merits of this agreement, I am a strong NO VOTE.

monkeybrains

GMAFB
MOT goes away under PBS because ther are no longer transition conflicts, vacation or training drops etc,

Cockpit video language has been in the contract for 10 years and has never happened. Neither ALPA nor the Company opened on it. Janet brought this BS up this morning on FB, of course she hasn’t attended a PUB event, LEC meeting or road show, but will continue to sit behind her keyboard and bitçh and make false statements because that is her MO. Don’t believe the hype. Go to a roadshow and educate yourself. If you’re still not happy, vote no, but stop relying on FB and APC for your info, you are doing yourself a complete disservice if those are your news outlets of choice.

V1 McFlyerson

To be fair though, the TA is really bad! All you have to do to is read it to see that. Can you believe how bad the LTD / Insurance coverage and provisions are? And have you read the notification and reassignment language? I’m sorry, but this TA is a failure to me and I’ll be voting no and will try to move on.

This thing is so far behind Spirit’s TA there is no way I can vote yes.

monkeybrains

The TA is not really bad IMHO. And you are certainly entitled to yours. Ltd isn’t bad, granted we don’t have own occ til 65,other than that I would argue it is better than most. Obviously we can’t just discount that shortfall, the question was asked at a roadshow. We don’t self insure, all the airlines that have own occ (including NK) do. Until we start self insuring, which will likely happen as we grow, own occ isnt going to happen.
Insurance provisions?? Have you taken a look at current book, there are no, and I truly mean no insurance provisions . In the current book, we are at the company’s mercy, no longer the case under the TA.
Notification and reassignment is the same as current practice. If the company tries to reassign you mid pairing today, what do you do? Not contact them? So they remove you from your flight, what do you do? Stowaway? Relocate to the outstation you are currently stranded in? If you are part of the 99% of the pilot group that isn’t insane, you get in touch with the company and accept the reassignment. What world do you live in when your boss tries to contact while you are at work and getting paid, and it is ok to say phuck you, I’m not responding. Not the way the real world works
New reassignment language is much clearer, there are clear financial penalties in place if you are reassigned or, just get back late(even if you haven’t been reassigned).
As I said earlier, I get it you’re voting no, and that is your choice, but please stop posting BS rhetoric that is not based in fact, stop making false claims without anything to back it up. If you’re unhappy post some real data and back it up with language from the TA.
Is the TA perfect? Of course not. But look at where we are today. We are looking at 45-60% increases in hourly, 75 million signing bonus, better rig, 100% DH, 5:00AMDP, 4:30 training day, 5:00 vacation day, 60% increase in Ltd, Ltd premium 100% paid by company, pilots choice if Bennie is taxable or not, non elective company contribution of 12% increasing to 15%, cash over cap, block or better, better scope language, parent letter(doesn’t exist today), 5:00 override if you are delayed past 0200 into a day off, pilots displaced for iOE no longer on AVA, better hotel language, long stay hotel locations, and the list goes on and on and on and on.
Would I like more? Sure, but to say this TA is really bad, tells me you should spend less time on APC and actually read the damn TA.
You want to continue working under our current agreement and being 80% behind the rest of the industry? I don’t, and fortunately I don’t believe there are many other frontier pilots that do either.
I will hold my head high walking through the airport making industry rates under an incredibly approved contract, instead of apologetically slinking through the airport now as I make 10% less than an FO flying for another airline as a captain at Frontier.

V1 McFlyerson

Good post but with the insurance I’m referring to us having no own occupation AND having to pay the employer portion of the health insurance should that situation arise.

Something else IDGAF that we don’t self insure just like I don’t GAF that our $2 corn dog per diem was ok’d in a package deal. Industry standard is industry standard and while I’ll conceed gains were obviously made, I’m not going to vote yes on industry bottom rates, unsat LTD, PBS and sloppy language.

Is this not the weakest group anyone has ever come across? Now you’d think line bidding was the worse thing a Frontier pilot ever had to endure.

Anyway, you make a lot of great points above but I’m voting hell no.