Aero1900

I bet this guy votes yes

chinookwinds

DON”T THINK SO. I am a 12 year Captain and the overall merits of this contract DO NOT deserve ratification. And with a little over 7 years left in my career, I could take the money and run. I will not vote in favor of this agreement and sell fellow junior pilots out with this TA.

From another thread I posted on and to voice my opinion.
I just got through going through our TA again from front to back.
I also just reviewed Spirits new contract the same way. Since we are being compared to Spirit in so many ways i.e.; discussions with reps, roadshow. “our rates are spirit +1%.
If every frontier pilot had a copy of the current Spirit contract I think most would realize how subpar this agreement really is. I would list all the pros and cons here, but the list is way to long. Just a few items for mention. Some are small, but in the overall big picture it all adds up.
Here are just a few of our short comings in comparison to our closest peer group
LTD-own occupation, pilot insurance cost for 60 months
+ 2hrs pay for FTD extensions
Hotel buyback program ($50) If you don’t use the hotel
$75 extra pay for working some holidays
Passport renewal-paid
Provisions for surface transportation- hourly/AAA at 43MPH
Entire section for the training department
Sick bank pay out provisions at retirement
2/1 Duty rig
Extra duty day for >24 hour layover
Seniority based premium flying folders, X list <2 days, Y list < 3hours followed by Junior assignment. All at 200%
Only Spirit pilots fly the airplanes; Frontier can still utilize contract pilots to ferry AC to and from MX facilities. Thought that went away.
We can’t touch a lot of their scheduling provisions.
AND A HUGE ONE; WHY DID WE NOT ADDRESS THIS!! I CALL BS!!!
E. Vacation Postponements
1. The Company may not cancel a pilot’s scheduled vacation. If Company operations necessitate the postponement of vacations, the Company shall first solicit volunteers for such postponement. If there are insufficient volunteers for such postponement, the Company may make such postponements mandatory.
2. Voluntary postponements shall be awarded in seniority order. Involuntary postponements shall be awarded in reverse seniority order by position.
3. Pilots whose vacations are postponed may select a vacation from open vacation time available during the current year or carry it over as unpostponable vacation to the following year. Vacation time carried over to the next year as a result of a Company postponement shall not be subject to a carryover cap. In no case will a pilot’s vacation be postponed two years in a row (i.e., if a pilot has vacation postponed to the following year, all of the vacation in the following year is unpostponable). The chief pilot will provide the pilot with documentation that his vacation has been postponed and that the vacation credit may be carried over to the following year.
4. A pilot whose vacation is postponed either voluntarily or involuntarily shall receive as much notice as possible of such postponement and shall be compensated for any payments or deposits that are unrecoverable due to the postponement. The pilot will be required to provide documentation of such losses.
THEY CAN NOT CANCEL A VACATION!!! What I heard at the road show from ALPA is ‘Everyone has the provision to cancel vacations”

Jet Blue knocked their very first contract out of the park. I have read their entire agreement as well and ... well and...Never mind.
IT IS NOT ALL ABOUT THE PAY!!!

Trowserchilli

Thank you. Great post.

I keep saying it. No reason we should have anything less than what Spirit does. It should be Spirit plus.

CantStayAway

Did you read it or just listen to the presentation from the union? There are zero financial penalties for reassignments. There are only financial penalties for finishing a trip late. If you disagree I’d like to see what language you say gives financial penalties for reassignments. I just don’t see it.

Highspeedmach

Well said.

Xtreme87

Jetblue has vacation cancellation. We definitely didn’t “knock it out of the park”. Don’t let ALPA sell you bull$hit. They will polish a turd and leave out loopholes and other short comings out of the roadshows. They will only highlight the best, but never mention the concessions and shortcomings. They do not work for the pilot group, take this from someone that just went through this. Alpa lies, plain and simple.

HeisenbergBlue

JetBlue has First class also. Just point it out as a fact.

chinookwinds

Yes, I know. Just trying to make a point regarding what happened to this group for 5 consecutive months of cancelled vacations. Really nothing in the TA to penalize or prevent this behavior going forward, and in regards to a question asked at a road show.
In the statement of knocking it out of the park, you guys did do a great job with your first contract. I was just listing some of our short comings in trying to bring our 10 year contract to date and what we do not have in comparison to our peers. So far, for everything we have given in section 6 negotiations doesn’t bring the rest of our contract to industry average in return. Starting with the major concession or reward to the company, which is PBS.

DrJekyll MrHyde

We’re Airbus operators, not flight attendants. I know this is hard to understand for a non-pilot, but regardless you should GFY!

butthert

The virtue signaling is very patronizing and irritating. Let the junior pilots make their own decisions. They want to grow and upgrade. A new hire at F9 vs JB has a much better career with this new TA. You voting NO is irresponsible and only delays their chance at a great career.
I actually question your reasoning for voting NO but will save that for another post.