![Another [incident] with in 2 weeks?](/iconimages/frontier/another-incident-2-weeks_ltr.gif)
Another [incident] with in 2 weeks?
05-19-2022 | 09:38 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,780
Likes: 64
is mishandling the jet on final the underlying issue? I’m not sure it is. I miss a few memos but I’ve not seen your mitigation technique documented. There’s a safety first article that covers ts mitigation; and I’m sure WIN has lots of detail.
i think management has to take a long hard look at the data with an open mind as to causality. I’d expect some themes to emerge, but it’s probably more complex than just limited experience.
//PL
i think management has to take a long hard look at the data with an open mind as to causality. I’d expect some themes to emerge, but it’s probably more complex than just limited experience.
//PL
Last edited by fcoolaiddrinker; 05-19-2022 at 09:54 AM.
05-19-2022 | 11:43 AM
#22
Almost there
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,012
Likes: 144
I certainly agree that our increased hiring will increase the likelihood of ‘training incidents’ -perhaps management should recognize the experience of current employees and make more effort in retaining its pilots; and spend less on hiring new ones with the event risks…
05-21-2022 | 02:17 PM
#23
Hold my beer, watch this.
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Pilot
On short final what I’ve noticed is to slow (function of auto thrust lag) with a highish deck angle resulting in the bottom falling out if you lose the gust and a pitch up reaction to that. Adding speed to vapp is the best mitigation in those scenarios imo. I’ve seen speed just sit 5-6kts below vapp for several seconds with no auto thrust increase.
05-21-2022 | 09:06 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,765
Likes: 115
From: 1900D CA
05-23-2022 | 12:05 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,897
Likes: 215
Looks like side stick input in pitch was limited in flare mode. That fix is only active with ground spoiler extension. If you hit the tail I would say you mishandled the jet at some point on short final. Not necessarily after the gear is already on the ground with spoiler extension. To be clear we’re talking in generalities and not about any of our current crews or strikes. On short final what I’ve noticed is to slow (function of auto thrust lag) with a highish deck angle resulting in the bottom falling out if you lose the gust and a pitch up reaction to that. Adding speed to vapp is the best mitigation in those scenarios imo. I’ve seen speed just sit 5-6kts below vapp for several seconds with no auto thrust increase.
05-23-2022 | 04:54 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,765
Likes: 115
From: 1900D CA
05-23-2022 | 08:02 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,780
Likes: 64
320 or 321? much do we weigh? what are the winds? What’s the contamination? Wet/frozen? Based on all that and then some other factors I’m sure I didn’t mention we’ll make a decision. I might go option b and turn off auto thrust? There’s guidance for both options including adding up to 15 kts to vapp. What I’m fairly confident I won’t do is niether if there’s wind shear. Ways to get landing distance. ACARS, qrh, and I believe vol 2 still.
05-23-2022 | 08:51 AM
#30
gets time off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,516
Likes: 98
it seems that will more than likely be true if f9 doesn’t address the underlying issue. Tail strike mitigation techniques. Adding 3-5 knots to vapp in a 321 as well as neo. That or turning auto thrust off because this auto thrust system struggles to increase power at or near vapp on short final. Swa 73 you can’t even use auto thrust in wind shear. I almost never see either technique used.
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