Sign on/retention bonus
11-16-2022 | 08:18 AM
#101
Almost there
Joined: Apr 2021
Posts: 2,005
Likes: 139
Your argument would be stronger except….”What Spirit Airlines is doing has precedent. Airlines in the United States, such as American Airlines, Delta Air Lines, and United Airlines, all used their loyalty programs as collateral for loans to persevere during the worst of the COVID-19 pandemic downturn.”
11-16-2022 | 08:28 AM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,760
Likes: 106
From: 1900D CA
Part of "taking care of your crew" should include taking care of your fellow airmen. This includes pushing hard to fix significant issues and pushing hard for improved working conditions, work rules, pay and benefits. Both during contract negotiations and outside of official negotiations. Hiding those significant issues and deficiencies, sweeping them under the rug, hiding them in a closet, and/or minimizing them publicly in the way you continually do is the opposite of "taking care of your crew (fellow airmen)".
It's clear by your many responses that your first and nearly only priority is to continue the growth of the airline, even if it means accepting the current conditions for longer, or even forever (relatively speaking), if that's what it takes to keep people coming to F9, even if they come under false pretenses (because you continually minimize and redirect legitimate concerns).
Anyhow, we've had this conversation before, and you learn nothing from it, but judging by the reactions from many of your coworkers, I'm not the only one who clearly sees it.
I'm glad you are not in my seniority list, because I would clearly consider you an enemy of the group when it comes to pushing for a better contract, and better contract compliance. But don't worry, we have some of "you" anyway.
It's clear by your many responses that your first and nearly only priority is to continue the growth of the airline, even if it means accepting the current conditions for longer, or even forever (relatively speaking), if that's what it takes to keep people coming to F9, even if they come under false pretenses (because you continually minimize and redirect legitimate concerns).
Anyhow, we've had this conversation before, and you learn nothing from it, but judging by the reactions from many of your coworkers, I'm not the only one who clearly sees it.
I'm glad you are not in my seniority list, because I would clearly consider you an enemy of the group when it comes to pushing for a better contract, and better contract compliance. But don't worry, we have some of "you" anyway.
Here's a question for all of you guys constantly attacking me: What the heck do you think I should be doing exactly? You want me to be "pushing hard to fix significant issues and pushing hard for improved working conditions, work rules, pay and benefits"
Ok. Tell me how exactly I'm supposed to do that? I'm not in management. I'm just a regular ol' line pilot. Show me where to push and I'll push! For God sake, we aren't even in contract negotiations! On my next flight should I get on the PA at the gate counter and tell the passengers that they shouldn't board the airplane until we get 'own occupation' LTD until age 65? Or should I tell the passengers on my welcome aboard PA that the company brought in 44 of our pilots to ask them about their sick time use and they should immediately get off the plane and buy a ticket on Delta instead? Should I go to my kids elementary school and organize a letter writing campaign to Biffle telling him to give me a raise?
What about reality? Anyone up for a dose of reality? Or are we all cool with bullsh*tting keyboard warriors pretending that they are really "fighting" for improvements when in reality all they are doing is b*tching on the forums at their fellow pilots?
We work under a negotiated labor contract, right? We agreed to it! (by 70%) We have to live with it until we can negotiate another one. And when that happens we will each have our chance to vote yes or no. In the meantime, I will do what you all want to try to get this place to run out of applicants. But beyond that, I'm just going to enjoy my job and be good to my fellow crew members. During our last contract negotiations, I attend both of our picketing events. I wore the ugly orange lanyard.I attended the union sales pitch and asked questions. I bought pizza for my entire crew last time I was on a trip. But I'm the enemy according to BlueDriver. nice.
Here ya go Keyboard warriors who think I'm not fighting the good fight:
ATTENTION ALL PROSPECTIVE APPLICANTS TO FRONTIER:
DO NOT COME HERE! GO TO DELTA UNIT FRONTIER GETS A BETTER CONTRACT!!!
We don't start negotiating for a year and won't have a deal for another 3 years after that, but I'm really fighting here guys! I bet Franke and Biffle are going to show up at my door tomorrow with a pile of cash now! I really learned from the wisdom of BlueDriver. So glad he stopped by to educate me. So glad I can completely circumvent our CBA and the RLA process to score big for the pilot group. And all I had to do was a little keyboard warrior action! Its good to not be the 'enemy' anymore... I'll sleep better tonight
11-16-2022 | 08:30 AM
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,760
Likes: 106
From: 1900D CA
Yeah, no sh*t.
What did you expect? We are working under a CBA we agreed to. Its the companies job to staff the airline, grow and make money. They are doing exactly that.
11-16-2022 | 08:41 AM
#104
Banned
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 507
Likes: 0
Welcome back, Blue. Missed ya Bud.
Here's a question for all of you guys constantly attacking me: What the heck do you think I should be doing exactly? You want me to be "pushing hard to fix significant issues and pushing hard for improved working conditions, work rules, pay and benefits"
Here's a question for all of you guys constantly attacking me: What the heck do you think I should be doing exactly? You want me to be "pushing hard to fix significant issues and pushing hard for improved working conditions, work rules, pay and benefits"
They want to to encourage your coworkers (FOs/Capts) to leave (so they can move up/have leverage).
And they don’t want you to go one inch beyond what is necessary to do your job. All the while complaining how no one else meets the standard.
Good luck.
11-16-2022 | 08:44 AM
#105
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 542
Likes: 0
11-16-2022 | 09:12 AM
#106
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 205
Likes: 9
Welcome back, Blue. Missed ya Bud.
Here's a question for all of you guys constantly attacking me: What the heck do you think I should be doing exactly? You want me to be "pushing hard to fix significant issues and pushing hard for improved working conditions, work rules, pay and benefits"
Ok. Tell me how exactly I'm supposed to do that? I'm not in management. I'm just a regular ol' line pilot. Show me where to push and I'll push! For God sake, we aren't even in contract negotiations! On my next flight should I get on the PA at the gate counter and tell the passengers that they shouldn't board the airplane until we get 'own occupation' LTD until age 65? Or should I tell the passengers on my welcome aboard PA that the company brought in 44 of our pilots to ask them about their sick time use and they should immediately get off the plane and buy a ticket on Delta instead? Should I go to my kids elementary school and organize a letter writing campaign to Biffle telling him to give me a raise?
What about reality? Anyone up for a dose of reality? Or are we all cool with bullsh*tting keyboard warriors pretending that they are really "fighting" for improvements when in reality all they are doing is b*tching on the forums at their fellow pilots?
We work under a negotiated labor contract, right? We agreed to it! (by 70%) We have to live with it until we can negotiate another one. And when that happens we will each have our chance to vote yes or no. In the meantime, I will do what you all want to try to get this place to run out of applicants. But beyond that, I'm just going to enjoy my job and be good to my fellow crew members. During our last contract negotiations, I attend both of our picketing events. I wore the ugly orange lanyard.I attended the union sales pitch and asked questions. I bought pizza for my entire crew last time I was on a trip. But I'm the enemy according to BlueDriver. nice.
Here ya go Keyboard warriors who think I'm not fighting the good fight:
ATTENTION ALL PROSPECTIVE APPLICANTS TO FRONTIER:
DO NOT COME HERE! GO TO DELTA UNIT FRONTIER GETS A BETTER CONTRACT!!!
We don't start negotiating for a year and won't have a deal for another 3 years after that, but I'm really fighting here guys! I bet Franke and Biffle are going to show up at my door tomorrow with a pile of cash now! I really learned from the wisdom of BlueDriver. So glad he stopped by to educate me. So glad I can completely circumvent our CBA and the RLA process to score big for the pilot group. And all I had to do was a little keyboard warrior action! Its good to not be the 'enemy' anymore... I'll sleep better tonight
Here's a question for all of you guys constantly attacking me: What the heck do you think I should be doing exactly? You want me to be "pushing hard to fix significant issues and pushing hard for improved working conditions, work rules, pay and benefits"
Ok. Tell me how exactly I'm supposed to do that? I'm not in management. I'm just a regular ol' line pilot. Show me where to push and I'll push! For God sake, we aren't even in contract negotiations! On my next flight should I get on the PA at the gate counter and tell the passengers that they shouldn't board the airplane until we get 'own occupation' LTD until age 65? Or should I tell the passengers on my welcome aboard PA that the company brought in 44 of our pilots to ask them about their sick time use and they should immediately get off the plane and buy a ticket on Delta instead? Should I go to my kids elementary school and organize a letter writing campaign to Biffle telling him to give me a raise?
What about reality? Anyone up for a dose of reality? Or are we all cool with bullsh*tting keyboard warriors pretending that they are really "fighting" for improvements when in reality all they are doing is b*tching on the forums at their fellow pilots?
We work under a negotiated labor contract, right? We agreed to it! (by 70%) We have to live with it until we can negotiate another one. And when that happens we will each have our chance to vote yes or no. In the meantime, I will do what you all want to try to get this place to run out of applicants. But beyond that, I'm just going to enjoy my job and be good to my fellow crew members. During our last contract negotiations, I attend both of our picketing events. I wore the ugly orange lanyard.I attended the union sales pitch and asked questions. I bought pizza for my entire crew last time I was on a trip. But I'm the enemy according to BlueDriver. nice.
Here ya go Keyboard warriors who think I'm not fighting the good fight:
ATTENTION ALL PROSPECTIVE APPLICANTS TO FRONTIER:
DO NOT COME HERE! GO TO DELTA UNIT FRONTIER GETS A BETTER CONTRACT!!!
We don't start negotiating for a year and won't have a deal for another 3 years after that, but I'm really fighting here guys! I bet Franke and Biffle are going to show up at my door tomorrow with a pile of cash now! I really learned from the wisdom of BlueDriver. So glad he stopped by to educate me. So glad I can completely circumvent our CBA and the RLA process to score big for the pilot group. And all I had to do was a little keyboard warrior action! Its good to not be the 'enemy' anymore... I'll sleep better tonight
11-16-2022 | 09:23 AM
#107
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 1,375
Likes: 115
From: Joystick Operator
I agree with this... People saying its gonna take 3 years to get a contract, that is 3 years too long for Frontier to survive in a market where pilots can go anywhere. I would expect to see a CBA finalized by mid 2025 most likely.
11-16-2022 | 09:40 AM
#108
On Reserve
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 101
Likes: 10
There is a difference in being a realist and a Pollyanna. Whether frontier pilots are in negotiations or not IMO isn’t relevant. This management has shown time and time again how they view labor, and it’s important for prospective pilots to understand who they will be working for and the issues that need rectified. Does that come across as being overly negative at times? Of course it can. But in my case, this is the result of managements actions, and they get what they give. They have the ability to change for the better. And they don’t get the benefit of the doubt. They get credit for making money, but look around the industry right now.
11-16-2022 | 09:56 AM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 482
Likes: 0
There is a difference in being a realist and a Pollyanna. Whether frontier pilots are in negotiations or not IMO isn’t relevant. This management has shown time and time again how they view labor, and it’s important for prospective pilots to understand who they will be working for and the issues that need rectified. Does that come across as being overly negative at times? Of course it can. But in my case, this is the result of managements actions, and they get what they give. They have the ability to change for the better. And they don’t get the benefit of the doubt. They get credit for making money, but look around the industry right now.
11-16-2022 | 10:16 AM
#110
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,231
Likes: 31
From: seated - facing forward
Check this out !
piedmont offering $100K upfront bonus - Jeez
https://airwaysmag.com/piedmont-airl...t-pilot-bonus/
piedmont offering $100K upfront bonus - Jeez
https://airwaysmag.com/piedmont-airl...t-pilot-bonus/
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