From what I thought, our ask didn't change but was always lower.

I'm not really concerned about the union (MEC/LEC or NC). It's the pilot force that decides things. And after last go round, there are enough of us still here that remember the union tactics and attempts at manipulation. It was even said by MEC higher ups "if we don't accept this one, the next one will be worse." SMH. Look at where we are now - the current rates being offered keep us behind so I'm fine with waiting it out for more. If more isn't offered, then I'm more than willing to see if a strike can happen. If the smallest only surviving ULCC can't strike, ALPA's got a new fight (Congress and the RLA).

But, despite being older and lots of seniority to lose, our current ask has me losing money (if signed in 2027) vs. going to legacy and upgrading at earliest. And think, the next contract cycle of legacy will be 2028-31. The so-called QoL we pretend to have isn't worth it. If non-legacy is voted in, I'll take my "retro" check and gladly give erbody below me a bump in seniority.

I would suppose everyone else can run the math as well...

 

OK, so some basic business principles (it's amazing how often this seems to be needed here)...

REVENUE is only ONE side of the equation. There is also a COST side to things. And as long as REVENUE is sufficient enough to overcome COST (to include LABOR), then the company makes a profit. Scott Kirby himself said that LABOR COSTS get passed on to the customer (meaning, ticket prices would need to rise).

Now, if the company surmises that raising the price will cause REVENUE to lessen, then they can do a couple of things to change that:
1) Decrease costs somewhere else (let's assume this isn't possible even though it almost always is)
2) Increase revenue somewhere else (this can be accomplished in many ways in the airline industry to include shipping cargo, more international flights, etc.)
3) Change specific areas within your model. This, of course, takes time and resources as aircraft reconfigurations come into play usually but once in place, pay for themselves and then some.

Good businesses do this all the time. It's part of business and is why CEOs get hired/fired. If legacy rates depended only on premium services (first class, international, etc.) then how does SWA afford their pilots? Come to think of it, if REVENUE is fixed or capped at a certain rate, no employees would EVER get raises.

Keep in mind the long game and the fact that the market will turn around eventually. It always does.

 

The union just very recently provided a new economic proposal to the company/ arbitrator. It had some asks reduced. But to be honest, I don't know if the pay tables were reduced or not?? The current ask is a 12th year CA rate of $360/ hour.

I don't know if we had a higher one of if that's what the first one from 2 years ago. I'll see if I can dig thru 10,000 emails to find it

 

12 year….360/2024….374/2026…389/2027

 

Of course, the CURRENT (2025) 12 yr CA at AA/UA/DL for A321N is 389.34. ALPA/MEC did a decent job on the latest Contract Comparison (on the MEC page). Yr 2 CA pay at UA (which is doable in some cities) for 2026 is $360.

Our ask was lower when we asked. The only reason mgt hasn't jumped on it (and locked us in at bargain rates) is because they don't think we pilots will turn it down (and quite possibly accept even lower).

Not getting the same rate to me is like saying i'm worth less or that i'm not as good of a pilot as others. I honestly felt like I should've walked last contract cycle but justified staying by telling myself that we were too far behind to make it up all at once. Well, seems like we're in that boat again. I'm too proud to stay behind forever.

I get legacy or I walk. Only way I lose is if we merge w/ a legacy after I do (and my seniority gets even lower). But I don't think that will happen.

 

negotiate update # 22 has the original proposal

 

Thank you. I had been searching. Looking at the contract comparison was somewhat useless since it only provided a snapshot that didn’t show growth for the other carriers.

 

Yeah, I told my reps about that. I hate that it shows the snapshot but not the other further out numbers. you have to do the math yourself.

Also, Remember our rates are the blended ones, not straight 321N rates or 319 rates... You have to avg those out at the legacies to get their "blended" numbers.

 

I can't find it in my email. Can you please post the pay numbers? At least the 12th year CA rate? Is it 360? Thanks

 

as follows.

Years of
Service 01/16/2024* 08/01/2026 08/01/2027
or MRA**
1 $325.00 $338.00 $351.52
2 $328.04 $341.16 $354.80
3 $331.10 $344.34 $358.12
4 $334.19 $347.56 $361.46
5 $337.32 $350.81 $364.84
6 $340.47 $354.08 $368.25
7 $343.65 $357.39 $371.69
8 $346.86 $360.73 $375.16
9 $350.10 $364.10 $378.66
10 $353.37 $367.50 $382.20
11 $356.67 $370.93 $385.77
12 $360.00 $374.40 $389.38

First Officer

Years of
Service 01/16/2024* 08/01/2026 08/01/2027
or MRA**
1 $100.00 $100.00 $100.00
2 $173.38 $180.31 $187.52
3 $199.39 $207.37 $215.67
4 $208.12 $216.44 $225.10
5 $215.37 $223.99 $232.95
6 $221.73 $230.60 $239.82
7 $227.47 $236.57 $246.04
8 $232.41 $241.71 $251.38
9 $236.10 $245.54 $255.37
10 $239.65 $249.24 $259.21
11 $242.20 $251.89 $261.97
12 $244.98 $254.78 $264.97

* Retro pay back to 1/16/24 at 75 hours/month/pilot, pensionable

** MRA = Market Rate Adjustment