I’ve done the math on the monthly guarantee math. We don’t talk about it because it doesn’t matter. We are paid by the hour. You’re confused if you think we’re talking about MMG. When we do more work more red eye flying more holiday and weekend flying with more passengers for less compensation per hourly rate but work more block hours than the average legacy pilot.


We deserve a lot more. They know it. They pay less because you accept less. Equal hourly rate is still a discount and still a no from me.

We want an equitable pay raise for all the stuff w have to deal with.


if you want to work for less the regionals are always taking cheap labor with limited rights. But I thought this was a major airline paying big boy pilot wages not some crappy regional carrier flying larger metal paying less than republic or endeavor after their incentives.

our hourly rate for our level of risk is crap.

tons of regional pilots make 140 an hour after 1000 hours of time in 121. In the mean time our company is trying offer us less than that to operate ate an airbus with 2-3 times the number of passengers.

let them go out of business if they can’t afford to pay us what we are worth. But pay me for the work I produce. Biffle gets higher compensation for the size of this airline compared to the legacies. We should get higher compensation too. We have more crap we have to deal with including smoothing over their failed operations.

This tirade makes dracir look reasonable. Guarantee doesn’t matter (even though it effects ltd directly) and the company offered less than $140 on the pay rate? The rest is mostly rant mixed in with some emotion.

While I agree with the sentiment, let’s look at a few things. Is someone holding you hostage here? Are you unable to apply to legacy carriers? (Devils advocate) I get it I’m in the trenches with you it’s frustrating to see my buddies absolutely killing it meanwhile I’m so far behind them and they hardly work. (Not the case for all of them but some of them)

Let’s also not forget this company doesn’t give two flying F’s about you or I. We are majority owned by an investment group. We serve one purpose and that’s for them to make money not to pay us what the other carriers pay. It’s a hard reality to understand and accept. But some people here have stayed for one reason or another. Does that mean we should be paid like our peers well I guess that’s something you can answer on your own. I know how I feel about it, but BB doesn’t care about my feelings he cares about the bottom line. Which is partly why we are in the position we currently are in. There is only so much cutting you can pull off before it hurts you/us.

I’m not the one running the business so I don’t call the shots but from an outsider looking into management, why are we cutting from the bottom without growing the top? What’s left to cut in an economic downturn? NOTHING! So where do they turn to? The pilot group that’s the one thing left to cut if we really hit hard times. They’ve been so focused on cheap let’s get to the cheapest model possible that they have forgotten to grow the top because ultimately price is king right?! Wrong, very wrong. If they had a semi care about our customer service and not stranding people for multiple days or a week because of their inability to recover we could hypothetically dominate. Three things are true—Customer service, reliability, and frequency will win over being the fastest to the bottom of cheap. Southwest once had this perfected. They are in a strange position right now but that’s also partially because they have the HIGHEST paying NB flying and need to figure out how to cover those costs. Businesses evolve they have to to stay in business. The market has shown the model isn’t a winning formula which is why the big three have basic economy they evolved to the ULCCs dominating years ago. My point is if we don’t evolve soon and rather quickly we could be so far behind the curve it could be detrimental.

I know it’s out of frustration that you say let them go out of business and pay me what I’m worth but you and I both know in this environment that’s probably the last thing you want right now. The rate of a bus pilot has been spoken for my view on this is pay up but careful what you ask for because that could mean the beginning of the end. If you’re cool with that then keep on keeping on with your rhetoric but ultimately temper those expectations we all know who we work for.

Way too much common sense in this post for APC.

It was a rhetorical question to stimulate a conversation, not an emotional tirade, and the answer is yes. The negotiators could simply go down to the company legacy ask for guarantee in exchange for going back to legacy rates. The cost is roughly the same on a balance sheet, in the Proposal, in Ltd coverage dollars, and and and. It’s the same cost.

bob you have like a year left you’re just bitter you’re not going to see the payout. Pipe down lol

But is it wrong…..

No it’s pretty spot on for the most part. We aren’t large enough to bargain for the latest and greatest we get what the legacies work for minus 5% because we’re smaller and a ULCC. That’s what you’re getting at with “who we work for” I think. Look at where we fell before everyone’s last round.. approximately within 5%, that’s where we should land again. Much less and I’ll vote no.

As far as “the company can’t afford it” line I keep hearing.. that’s what they said last time. Are you aware of our profits before and after our last CBA?

2016: +200M
2017: +162M
2018: +80M
2019: CBA ratified +251M

Strange how they just couldn’t pay and the year we get a CBA we make $251M and BB said “I thought it would be more”. He’s got 90% of us right where he wants us, wake up and have some respect for yourselves. I don’t care what Bob thinks, we have hundreds of lives in our hands and we do a job that is HIGHLY skilled. We get paid, or we vote no. It’s simple.

My man, are you aware that it is currently the year 2025, and that we have run annual losses each year since 2019, where you conveniently ended your analysis?

hindsight is so five years ago