Bolo

I absolutely agree with MANFLEX, why can't we make great gains like the other airlines?

Bolo

This from Zoooropa is spot on!

zoooropa

It is difficult to make a comparison between Spirit and F9 or really any other airline and F9 at this point in time.

Our CBA was negotiated in 2005 and 2006 and ratified in 2007. It has since been drug through Bankruptcy. We came inches from shutting the doors completely two times in the past five years. Once in the summer of 2008 our cash flow was projected to drop below the "administrative dissolution" level allowed by the BK court. The airline had to prepare weekly budgets to the Unsecured Creditors Committee and the weekly budget showed a dangerously low level of cash. Thankfully the price of oil plummeted from an all time high in July to a sustainable level in the fall. Without that fall in oil prices F9 was going to shut down for good in late August or early September. I rode a jumpseat home in late August thinking it would certainly the last time I would be using my F9 ID. I took a bunch of pics during the flight and drove home from the airport at peace just waiting to see F9 on the news.

The second time was in June 2011. RAH had lost $55 million in just a few months, by design. They shifted a bunch of orphaned RJ's over to the F9 balance sheet and made us a cost center for the holding company. The RAH BoD had a choice of recouping their investment by just sinking F9 and ridding themselves of a bunch of bad RJ's or extracting concessions and recouping their investment via profits. They chose the latter and F9 lived to fly another day. It is really a miracle that we are still in business.

So our CBA was ratified seven years ago and experienced several rounds of concessions. Our hourly rates represent this reality. Virtually every other airline has negotiated new CBA's since our exit from BK so we are not comparing apples to apples.

We will have our day in 2016 to negotiate a new CBA sometime after 2017. Once we start flying the NEO's in 2016 (if the LEAP X motor is ready in time) F9 will have stupid profit margins. We already have the highest consistent profit margins in the history of this airline. The NEO will just add to that in a big way. Indigo is going to make a killing for a few years while we negotiate a new CBA. It will be a good point in time for us to be bargaining for higher wages.

Just my two cents.

sulkair

zoo, thanks for outlining these dire details wrt to our history. Wow! And for providing some common sense perspective on a better future.

monkeybrains

We were all new at one point or another, and I don't think you are naive. It is actually nice to see people walking through the terminal with smiles on their faces rather than the scowls that most of us have. Great work rules has been an F9 mantra for as long as I can remember. I believe this stems from the fact that, due to our niche in the industry, our contract worked for us in the past, not necessarily because of any great language, but because of the flying we did, and the make up of our pilot group.

As far as taking the next step goes, our contract becomes amendable in about 2.5 years, and hopefully we can start openers a year before that. As far as the biggest obstacles going forward, I would say that unfortunately the mentality of our group might be one of the biggest issues. I hear people using terms like "a kinder gentler Bill Franke" and "this is his last dance and he wants F9 to be the crowning jewel in his career" to which I shake my head. I have no doubt that F9 will be in great financial shape when the time come for negotiations, but without resolve and unity as a pilot group, we won't see any of it. Indigo is not going to get out their checkbook and moneywhip smiles on our face due to our collective sacrifices over the years. They are here for one reason, money. BF wants as much as he can get, and he doesn't want us to get any. The guy has more money than he could ever spend yet at 76 years old he is still putting up with this crap because he wants more. Me, I want to punch out at 50 and spend the rest of my years scuba diving in Belize. I hope our group can begin to get a grasp on how difficult the fight ahead is really going to be if we are going to negotiate an industry leading contract. I suppose only time will tell.

WantTheJob

I agree with zoo and monkey on this one. More importantly, attitude of the pilot group is a major factor in how united we stand for a contract we can all be proud of. I have seen many times how attitude negatively effects the cohesiveness of a group going into a negotiation.

In my short time hear at F9, I am really happy to see the level of maturity and knowledge that this pilot group has about its future. Trust when I say there a lot of groups out there that are nowhere in touch with reality. All most all of the guys I have flown with or come across still have a smile on their face and a positive outlook on the future. To a new person on property, that is the best indication and motivation to fight for a new contract and a great future.

gooddeal

I was following this train wreck from the sidelines and can't believe RAH chose the latter either. I wonder what F9 management/negotiators said to survive...those people did outstanding work!

sulkair

I think the time for viewing BF as our savior should already be over. We will be giving him unnecessary leverage by holding on to such foolish sentiment. I'm not downplaying the massive good fortune we received when Indigo stepped up, but frankly, we don't owe him anything. He's a business man and he did it to make money. Our good fortune is completely incidental. We should be thinking exactly like he does - looking out for our interests first.

All this talk about BF's crown jewel achievement late in life and flowers and butterflies is just stupid. I've been hearing it too.

We need to get educated and fast! I hope FAPA takes an aggressive and strong stand early on, and facilitates a powerful education campaign. Pilots are easily manipulated, and it will take more than smiley faces and good attitudes to achieve the gains we deserve.

I think we hold all the cards going forward - we just have to keep pollyannaish pilots from giving them away for nothing.

OpenClimb

Exactly! Well said. Welcome to F9.

silver fleet

Perfectly articulated. Lets not forget what BF did at America West in the 90's, he damn near let the doors close.....