GogglesPisano

NewGuy:

Why don't you do your own research. Go back over the decades and compare the number of pilot groups that voted to unionize to the number of pilot groups that voted to decertify their union and become individual free agents. The number will shock you. There is a reason. You'll have to grapple with some of your pre-conceptions.

If you really want to work for a non-union airline might I suggest ..

Virgin America -- oops, they went ALPA.

How about jetBlue -- wait, they voted in ALPA as well.

That leaves Skywest (not a bad outfit) and the freightdogs in Miami. And again, there's always corporate aviation.

We all wish you the best of luck.

Blackhawk

I didn't view the OP's question as an attack on unions but someone coming from the military (where we normally don't deal with unions), asking an honest question.
And while I support ALPA, let's not pretend that it doesn't have issues. Such as sending us mailings about Norwegian Air but not remembering the travesty of GoJet. I know people at ALPA national who give me a blank stare when I ask them about GoJet. How quickly they forget.

Excargodog

At the risk (Hell, damn near certainty) of provoking a flame war, I'd like to make a few observations. Outside of the government employee sector, unions have been dying for years. At one time - at the height of union power - repealing section 14b of the Taft-Hartley Act almost seemed doable, but in the last 30-40 years the movement has been very much in the other direction. More states have become right-to-work. And even right now there is a case before the Supreme Court that threatens to undermine the only area of unionism that has really been growing in the last 40 years, the government employees unions. The percentage of people who have ever been in a union in the private sector hasn't been lower in our lifetimes.

The fact is that new guys (and that would likely include NewGuy) simply don't have much experience with unions one way or another and are likely approaching the issue from an attitude of simple ignorance rather than malevolence. Postings like the above one are, in my opinion, likely to be less than helpful.

These people ARE NOT going to go elsewhere if simply met with hostility, and even if some do, the ones replacing them are going to be coming out of the same ignorant of union issues environment.

Basically, I think hammering people for their ignorance - ignorance of something they have had no meaningful exposure to - is a losing strategy. Will education and outreach work for someone that has reached twenty-five or thirty-five years of age with no understanding about what a union is or what it does? I don't know. But I have my doubts that meeting him with hostility and telling him to do something else with his life will.

new guy

I'm completely open to learning about unions as they function in the aviation sector. My understanding that for each job field (and even amongst the unions in those fields), there can be a night and day difference. My views are pretty none union based on watching coal mining communities unions "in action" which is pretty disgraceful.

But unions fought to get pay increased at endeavor above that of the newest rates across the board from 2017. Unions have maintained SAP at PSA, one of the best QOL told I've seen.

GoJet though appears to have been founded with a faux-union placed by governance during the "split" from TSA.

I'd like to know that the group that's there is working for me, not the other side. While benefits/pay have increased particularly in the last 5 years, particularly with pay nearly doubling at most regionals, the question is was that because the union did it or because no one would work for scraps anymore? Pay should increase with time as opposed to a 40% jump in a single year. That shows that the airline made the decision due to the environment as opposed to the union winning all of a sudden.

Blackhawk

Sniff... sniff... There is a glimmer of hope that humanity is not doomed.

qualified50

The question still remains, what is the Trans States Holding lead counsel doing carrying around a pilot ID as well as having known crew member access badge. Also what is the management pilot that dragged a wing upon landing through the pavement at Denver still in his current role and even further more after that extremely unsafe event what is he doing giving the lead counsel IOE so he can work 121 flights? This seems as a union busting as well as unsafe.

StlLifer

There are many pilots who are theoretically not supporters of unions, right around 50%, but realistically, pilots are in a unionized industry. And not all airlines have unions. Skywest doesn't.

We don't have a union at Gojet, we have the Teamsters.

Strenyakov

A lot of people don't want to give money to a union to then have the Union give money to politicians.

I doubt that this David Hayes = TSH's Corporate Counsel David Hayes. [MOD EDIT]

SEPfield

It is he same person. I recently spoke with a person in training that said they would refuse to train him. So they had to find someone that would train him. Maybe they found someone in training that needed a little legal help to keep his job and certificates after he dragged a wing through the pavement in Denver.

Hot Richard

Union dues cannot be used as political contributions. That is why ALPA-PAC exists, separate pool of money, donation based.