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SevereClear1 11-14-2020 08:33 AM

GoJet Growth
 
As of the last employee call 550 conversions are restarting and it Sounds like GoJet is getting a total of 74 planes by end of 2021.



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prt135 11-14-2020 09:04 AM

74 additional planes added to the fleet?

SevereClear1 11-14-2020 09:22 AM


Originally Posted by prt135 (Post 3158759)
74 additional planes added to the fleet?

74 total planes 38 on property now

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acecrackshot 11-17-2020 09:45 AM

[Ron Burgundy] I don't believe you. [/Ron Burgundy]

LadyJustice 11-19-2020 09:51 PM

Smartest move ever for GJ is to lease planes from Skywest. Skywest will keep GJ going to keep the lease payments coming in. Congratulations to both GJ and SW. SW the latest in leasing companies.

TSA796 12-03-2020 05:11 AM

They are not very smart
 
If that is an incredible stroke of genius why did they not lease them from the start. We all know GJ is hanging on by a thread. I know for sure uncle Hulie will not take risks or stay in business if a solid profit plan can't be implemented. His model of operating a subpar airline on the cheap is dead. If he won't step up and run a first class business he is history. The big problem he has is current management is not very talented because he runs everything on the cheap, including his management salaries. He really does not have many choices. Not sure if he has anything left to sell now that he cashed out with jets. He is just setting up for an exit stage left when the day arrives. He is not stupid, on the contrary he is a very shrewd business man with an accounting background. He knows how to make money in a flourishing airline environment not a complete melt down where he has to fight to survive. He knows the airline industry will not recover back to precovid numbers for at least 5 years. That is assuming these vaccinations are effective for more than 4-6 months. Plus the risk of a severe depression are just one stimulus check away, our economy is in big trouble and Hulas knows it. Right now the long term risks are unknown so there are many risks involved for someone putting up their cash to play. He is not a risk taker, plus he is now in the twilight of his life so even less likely he will invest long term. None of his kids want the business, they just want the cash like selling jets. And lastly even United does not want to be associated with his business model of running a business that believes everything should be run as cheaply as possible making the customer experience less than favorable, that is putting it politely. He will bow out as soon as United allows him to. Sorry Gojetter's.

ElCaribe 12-06-2020 07:39 AM


Originally Posted by TSA796 (Post 3166047)
If that is an incredible stroke of genius why did they not lease them from the start. We all know GJ is hanging on by a thread. I know for sure uncle Hulie will not take risks or stay in business if a solid profit plan can't be implemented. His model of operating a subpar airline on the cheap is dead. If he won't step up and run a first class business he is history. The big problem he has is current management is not very talented because he runs everything on the cheap, including his management salaries. He really does not have many choices. Not sure if he has anything left to sell now that he cashed out with jets. He is just setting up for an exit stage left when the day arrives. He is not stupid, on the contrary he is a very shrewd business man with an accounting background. He knows how to make money in a flourishing airline environment not a complete melt down where he has to fight to survive. He knows the airline industry will not recover back to precovid numbers for at least 5 years. That is assuming these vaccinations are effective for more than 4-6 months. Plus the risk of a severe depression are just one stimulus check away, our economy is in big trouble and Hulas knows it. Right now the long term risks are unknown so there are many risks involved for someone putting up their cash to play. He is not a risk taker, plus he is now in the twilight of his life so even less likely he will invest long term. None of his kids want the business, they just want the cash like selling jets. And lastly even United does not want to be associated with his business model of running a business that believes everything should be run as cheaply as possible making the customer experience less than favorable, that is putting it politely. He will bow out as soon as United allows him to. Sorry Gojetter's.

Then why is United giving Mesa so much business? Because theyíre cheaper then everyone else. Theyíre operation is terrible. No offense to any Mesa pilots. If GoJet ceased operations it will be for a lot of other reasons.

NovemberBravo 12-06-2020 10:26 AM


Originally Posted by ElCaribe (Post 3167437)
Then why is United giving Mesa so much business? Because theyíre cheaper then everyone else. Theyíre operation is terrible. No offense to any Mesa pilots. If GoJet ceased operations it will be for a lot of other reasons.

They operation is terrible on the AA side. The UA side runs just fine.

LadyJustice 12-06-2020 02:07 PM


Originally Posted by TSA796 (Post 3166047)
If that is an incredible stroke of genius why did they not lease them from the start. We all know GJ is hanging on by a thread. I know for sure uncle Hulie will not take risks or stay in business if a solid profit plan can't be implemented. His model of operating a subpar airline on the cheap is dead. If he won't step up and run a first class business he is history. The big problem he has is current management is not very talented because he runs everything on the cheap, including his management salaries. He really does not have many choices. Not sure if he has anything left to sell now that he cashed out with jets. He is just setting up for an exit stage left when the day arrives. He is not stupid, on the contrary he is a very shrewd business man with an accounting background. He knows how to make money in a flourishing airline environment not a complete melt down where he has to fight to survive. He knows the airline industry will not recover back to precovid numbers for at least 5 years. That is assuming these vaccinations are effective for more than 4-6 months. Plus the risk of a severe depression are just one stimulus check away, our economy is in big trouble and Hulas knows it. Right now the long term risks are unknown so there are many risks involved for someone putting up their cash to play. He is not a risk taker, plus he is now in the twilight of his life so even less likely he will invest long term. None of his kids want the business, they just want the cash like selling jets. And lastly even United does not want to be associated with his business model of running a business that believes everything should be run as cheaply as possible making the customer experience less than favorable, that is putting it politely. He will bow out as soon as United allows him to. Sorry Gojetter's.

Gojet is staying alive with the help of United and Skywest and the prospect of government pandemic money coming through. That money is basically pledged as collateral along with the planes. Assuming the money comes through there will be some maneuvering to get away from the money going to keep people employed and move it over to paying bills and transferring assets. In the end there will be a deal agreed to by everyone for the money to pay the bills, assets that were collateral transferred, and a number of employees going with the planes. I've been a part of 3 of these types of deals in the past. The first time almost 1000 pilots went with the planes, The next 2 were merely the guaranteed interviews. "The deal was not optimal and was not what anyone wanted, but given the economic constraints we all faced this deal provided the best opportunity going forward for all. XXX airline has committed to interviewing all Gojet employees over the next 24 month and to hire a minimum of YYY of those interviewed provided XXXX continues to hire. Everyone will have a chance with this agreement." Then there will be a line added, "The payment of ZZ million to HK and 75k per month until an update future date for his helping with the transition of assets is a standard in the Airline industry for this type of transitions. The US government gas agreed to the structuring of this deal even though the money was originally given to keep employees employed."

EELightning 12-07-2020 07:13 AM

You had me until you got to the part about UA caring about passenger experience.

Making the customer experience as unfavorable as possible is basically the motto at UA. It's how they differentiate themselves from the competition. From the rampers to the agents to the overbooking to the crappy seats to the choice of most miserable planes with the most miserable interior configuration to the penny pinching with the apu to the snack/food options, UA is a legacy airline with a legacy route structure, and legacy overhead with the passenger experience of a startup ulcc.

UA: "you hate us, but you'll be back. either because we're the only option for your route or because you are a cheap sucker that can't resist taking the the 3% cheaper option"

Hedley 12-07-2020 09:24 AM


Originally Posted by EELightning (Post 3167790)
You had me until you got to the part about UA caring about passenger experience.

Making the customer experience as unfavorable as possible is basically the motto at UA. It's how they differentiate themselves from the competition. From the rampers to the agents to the overbooking to the crappy seats to the choice of most miserable planes with the most miserable interior configuration to the penny pinching with the apu to the snack/food options, UA is a legacy airline with a legacy route structure, and legacy overhead with the passenger experience of a startup ulcc.

UA: "you hate us, but you'll be back. either because we're the only option for your route or because you are a cheap sucker that can't resist taking the the 3% cheaper option"

So.......... were you turned down after an interview, or did you work for a regional that United cut their ties with? Iíve flown all over the world on every legacy airline we have, and based on my experience, United is just another big US airline. Itís no better or worse than American or Delta. Compared to riding on Emirates though, all of our airlines stink.

tallow 12-07-2020 11:50 AM


Originally Posted by LadyJustice (Post 3167568)
Gojet is staying alive with the help of United and Skywest and the prospect of government pandemic money coming through. That money is basically pledged as collateral along with the planes. Assuming the money comes through there will be some maneuvering to get away from the money going to keep people employed and move it over to paying bills and transferring assets. In the end there will be a deal agreed to by everyone for the money to pay the bills, assets that were collateral transferred, and a number of employees going with the planes. I've been a part of 3 of these types of deals in the past. The first time almost 1000 pilots went with the planes, The next 2 were merely the guaranteed interviews. "The deal was not optimal and was not what anyone wanted, but given the economic constraints we all faced this deal provided the best opportunity going forward for all. XXX airline has committed to interviewing all Gojet employees over the next 24 month and to hire a minimum of YYY of those interviewed provided XXXX continues to hire. Everyone will have a chance with this agreement." Then there will be a line added, "The payment of ZZ million to HK and 75k per month until an update future date for his helping with the transition of assets is a standard in the Airline industry for this type of transitions. The US government gas agreed to the structuring of this deal even though the money was originally given to keep employees employed."

Keep thinking this. TSA had the same deal with Expressjet until United figured out the pilots hiring market was over and pulled the deal and TSA furloughed us all. There are thousands of pilots on the street right now that will jump at any job so the chances you will get any preferential deal as long as that exists are minimal. Good luck you're going to need it. Uncle Hulas will get his check and screw you in the end.

ElCaribe 12-08-2020 01:03 PM


Originally Posted by Hedley (Post 3167832)
So.......... were you turned down after an interview, or did you work for a regional that United cut their ties with? Iíve flown all over the world on every legacy airline we have, and based on my experience, United is just another big US airline. Itís no better or worse than American or Delta. Compared to riding on Emirates though, all of our airlines stink.

International is very different than domestic in regards to the US legacies.

Hedley 12-08-2020 02:53 PM


Originally Posted by ElCaribe (Post 3168279)
International is very different than domestic in regards to the US legacies.

There still isnít a big difference domestically from what Iíve noticed. American, Delta, and United are just big cattle cars with a large route structure.

ElCaribe 12-08-2020 05:25 PM


Originally Posted by Hedley (Post 3168302)
There still isnít a big difference domestically from what Iíve noticed. American, Delta, and United are just big cattle cars with a large route structure.

Not as a pilot it isnít. Flying WB intl is a different airline than NB domestic.

Hedley 12-08-2020 06:27 PM


Originally Posted by ElCaribe (Post 3168369)
Not as a pilot it isnít. Flying WB intl is a different airline than NB domestic.

I was replying to someone who was saying that United doesnít care about the customer experience and how bad the product is. What pilots think about it wasnít the issue. But to clear up your statement... yes, flying international and domestic are like two different airlines at every company. The QOL of a 777 pilot at any of the legacies will be about the same as the others. When comparing the product, the big three are about the same. When comparing being a pilot on similar equipment, again, about the same.

ElCaribe 12-09-2020 07:22 AM


Originally Posted by Hedley (Post 3168392)
I was replying to someone who was saying that United doesnít care about the customer experience and how bad the product is. What pilots think about it wasnít the issue. But to clear up your statement... yes, flying international and domestic are like two different airlines at every company. The QOL of a 777 pilot at any of the legacies will be about the same as the others. When comparing the product, the big three are about the same. When comparing being a pilot on similar equipment, again, about the same.

I misread your post then. Classic APC blunder. Yes, Unitedís product sucks.

Hedley 12-09-2020 07:50 AM


Originally Posted by ElCaribe (Post 3168537)
I misread your post then. Classic APC blunder. Yes, Unitedís product sucks.

They all stink, but since Delta has gotten rid of the bulk of their 50 seat jets and brought on the A220, Iíd say that they have the best flavor crap of the big 3. United had the same opportunity to bring on another NB fleet type and free up approximately 70 more big rjís, but unlike Delta, they chose not to exercise that option. Kirby said that the 50 seaters would most likely be a thing of the past after all of this, but I fully expect more of the same. Heíd love to have what Delta does, but heís not willing to do what they did to get it.

DarkSideMoon 12-09-2020 02:06 PM


Originally Posted by Hedley (Post 3168552)
They all stink, but since Delta has gotten rid of the bulk of their 50 seat jets and brought on the A220, Iíd say that they have the best flavor crap of the big 3. United had the same opportunity to bring on another NB fleet type and free up approximately 70 more big rjís, but unlike Delta, they chose not to exercise that option. Kirby said that the 50 seaters would most likely be a thing of the past after all of this, but I fully expect more of the same. Heíd love to have what Delta does, but heís not willing to do what they did to get it.

When you look at ticket prices, economy fares keep going down relative to inflation. I view a regular economy ticket on any legacy as flying on a LCC. Economy plus is what economy used to be. Business class/first is like a totally different airline.

Hedley 12-09-2020 05:24 PM


Originally Posted by DarkSideMoon (Post 3168741)
When you look at ticket prices, economy fares keep going down relative to inflation. I view a regular economy ticket on any legacy as flying on a LCC. Economy plus is what economy used to be. Business class/first is like a totally different airline.

Thatís where the basic economy/economy plus seating came from. Part of coach is what it always was and now called economy plus, and the back is called basic economy with tight seating and a lower price to compete with the LCCís.

RockyMountain 12-12-2020 09:34 PM


Originally Posted by tallow (Post 3167880)
Keep thinking this. TSA had the same deal with Expressjet until United figured out the pilots hiring market was over and pulled the deal and TSA furloughed us all. There are thousands of pilots on the street right now that will jump at any job so the chances you will get any preferential deal as long as that exists are minimal. Good luck you're going to need it. Uncle Hulas will get his check and screw you in the end.

I believe the Lady is thinking that Skywest will need some pilots who actually fly the 550 in order to make the transfer seamless. Maybe they don't, I don't know what it takes to go from flying a 700 to flying a 550, is it 2 days of training, a week? IOE or just a couple of landings? You are probably right and she is probably wrong.

It was not United that figured out the pilot hiring problem was over but Hulas who went back and showed United that they could renegotiate the deal so that TSA pilots would not have to go to ExpressJet but Expressjet could get pilots at year one captain pay instead of 5th year captain pay and save money each year for 15 years.

Finessed 12-13-2020 07:44 PM


Originally Posted by RockyMountain (Post 3170092)
I believe the Lady is thinking that Skywest will need some pilots who actually fly the 550 in order to make the transfer seamless. Maybe they don't, I don't know what it takes to go from flying a 700 to flying a 550, is it 2 days of training, a week? IOE or just a couple of landings? You are probably right and she is probably wrong.

It was not United that figured out the pilot hiring problem was over but Hulas who went back and showed United that they could renegotiate the deal so that TSA pilots would not have to go to ExpressJet but Expressjet could get pilots at year one captain pay instead of 5th year captain pay and save money each year for 15 years.

Is the 550 even needed now? I thought the 550
was Unitedís way of skimming through scope contract without technically violating it.

I assume the scope isnít still being maxed out??

Also no IOE or landings for the 550, probably 1 day of ground and 1 simulator lesson. Itís nothing but a CRJ700 with 50 seats.

Hedley 12-14-2020 11:44 AM


Originally Posted by Finessed (Post 3170409)
Is the 550 even needed now? I thought the 550
was Unitedís way of skimming through scope contract without technically violating it.

I assume the scope isnít still being maxed out??

Also no IOE or landings for the 550, probably 1 day of ground and 1 simulator lesson. Itís nothing but a CRJ700 with 50 seats.

United really likes the 175ís, but that sized plane is scoped out. To get more 175ís, they had to either park, or convert the 700ís since they donít want to add another NB fleet type. They know that the 145ís and 200ís are a poor product that generate the majority of the negative customer feedback. By converting the 700ís, United can replace those hulls with 70 seat 175ís, plus the resulting 50 seat product offers a dual class cabin that the premium customers wanted. From what I understand, UAX flying is currently maxed out due to the more restrictive rules that came with the LOA.

Finessed 12-14-2020 03:16 PM


Originally Posted by Hedley (Post 3170670)
United really likes the 175ís, but that sized plane is scoped out. To get more 175ís, they had to either park, or convert the 700ís since they donít want to add another NB fleet type. They know that the 145ís and 200ís are a poor product that generate the majority of the negative customer feedback. By converting the 700ís, United can replace those hulls with 70 seat 175ís, plus the resulting 50 seat product offers a dual class cabin that the premium customers wanted. From what I understand, UAX flying is currently maxed out due to the more restrictive rules that came with the LOA.

Sounds good, makes sense to me. Scope is probably being negotiated as we speak, 2021 will be an interesting year to say the least.

Hedley 12-14-2020 04:15 PM


Originally Posted by Finessed (Post 3170746)
Sounds good, makes sense to me. Scope is probably being negotiated as we speak, 2021 will be an interesting year to say the least.

I have a better chance of my wife giving me a hall pass than Kirby does of getting any type of scope relief. As the 145ís and 200ís get older and more unpopular with our customers, he can either replace that lift with a new NB fleet and a few more 175ís, or replace that flying with the current fleet and and no additional 175ís. Its up to him now. Should be interesting.

Lear90210 12-15-2020 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by Hedley (Post 3167832)
So.......... were you turned down after an interview, or did you work for a regional that United cut their ties with? Iíve flown all over the world on every legacy airline we have, and based on my experience, United is just another big US airline. Itís no better or worse than American or Delta. Compared to riding on Emirates though, all of our airlines stink.


Agree to disagree. United (granted Iím flying for FREE) was the worst. Iíll say it was a close tie to last place with American.

not counting the ďseatbelts sold separately spiritĒ

I would not pay $20 to fly United. Delta was amazing, inflight entertainment, food, service. 12/10


The best airlines I zed on for international (top 3)

1. Qatar, worth the DOH layover. Amazing everything
2. Emirates
3. Turkish

climb150 12-16-2020 06:30 AM

Best International Airlines that don't treat their staff like crap,

Singapore Airlines, Eva Air, Japan Airlines/ANA, Lufthansa.

short list isn't it?

Hedley 12-16-2020 07:07 AM


Originally Posted by climb150 (Post 3171344)
Best International Airlines that don't treat their staff like crap,

Singapore Airlines, Eva Air, Japan Airlines/ANA, Lufthansa.

short list isn't it?

Go work for any of those airlines and youíd be begging to put up with the working conditions and pay of American, Delta, Southwest, United, FedEx, or UPS.

climb150 12-16-2020 03:22 PM


Originally Posted by Hedley (Post 3171366)
Go work for any of those airlines and youíd be begging to put up with the working conditions and pay of American, Delta, Southwest, United, FedEx, or UPS.

What are you on Hedley?

Those airlines I mentioned are well respected and treat their staff well. Pay at US Legacies may be higher but I am more talking of the experience of the passenger in flight. Emirates and Qatar have excellent service but treat staff poorly. My list have great service and treat their staff like humans.

The inflight service of American and United etc is appalling compared to other countries major airlines.

Hedley 12-16-2020 06:25 PM


Originally Posted by climb150 (Post 3171555)
What are you on Hedley?

Those airlines I mentioned are well respected and treat their staff well. Pay at US Legacies may be higher but I am more talking of the experience of the passenger in flight. Emirates and Qatar have excellent service but treat staff poorly. My list have great service and treat their staff like humans.

The inflight service of American and United etc is appalling compared to other countries major airlines.

Youíre right, the inflight service on every one of those airlines blows any US carrier away. Thereís just no comparison. As far as being a pilot goes, Iíd take any of the US big 3 over any of those that you listed, as a passenger, Iíd buy a first class ticket on your list.

pangolin 12-29-2020 12:49 PM

Chin up. Tired old mesa 700s coming your way sooner than later.

captive apple 12-29-2020 01:15 PM

Are these planes going to sit? Are they behind in hiring/training? A conversion canít take too long.

pangolin 12-29-2020 01:56 PM


Originally Posted by captive apple (Post 3175835)
Are these planes going to sit? Are they behind in hiring/training? A conversion canít take too long.

Last flight for them is Feb 11 for us. They are going to GoJet.

jcool734 12-29-2020 03:32 PM

Will def be interesting with getting 20 new CRJ


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jetlag q 12-29-2020 08:15 PM


Originally Posted by jcool734 (Post 3175883)
Will def be interesting with getting 20 new CRJ


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new isnít an adjective I would use.

pangolin 12-30-2020 03:55 AM


Originally Posted by jetlag q (Post 3175970)
new isnít an adjective I would use.

The good news is that you wonít have to spend a lot of money stripping paint.

jcool734 12-30-2020 04:55 AM


Originally Posted by pangolin (Post 3176006)
The good news is that you wonít have to spend a lot of money stripping paint.


[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] facts


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TransWorld 12-30-2020 07:03 AM


Originally Posted by jetlag q (Post 3175970)
new isnít an adjective I would use.

As my dad said when I got new clothes that were hand me downs, ďThey are new to you, so shut up and wear them.Ē

brocklee9000 12-30-2020 11:13 AM


Originally Posted by captive apple (Post 3175835)
Are these planes going to sit? Are they behind in hiring/training? A conversion canít take too long.

A few weeks back I saw about a dozen sitting in TUS by the old tower. Presumably waiting for the conversion. They looked old and tired, but hopefully find new life at G7. No clue how long it takes, but they seemed busy doing the conversions all summer.

jetlag q 12-30-2020 05:44 PM


Originally Posted by TransWorld (Post 3176064)
As my dad said when I got new clothes that were hand me downs, ďThey are new to you, so shut up and wear them.Ē

when your new crj550 is altitude limited because of one pack being down. Or no apu in the summer make sure you tell your dad about it 😂


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